Cincinnatus BLOG *** Political Commentary – Social Commentary

My Son The Socialist – Confronts Reality


“A man younger than 30 who’s not a liberal has no heart and a man older than 30 who’s not a conservative has no brain” – Winston Churchill.

Spending his formative years in Paris and then returning to complete college and graduate school at the American University of Paris, my son became deeply steeped in French cradle-to -grave socialism, never failing to extol its virtues. A self proclaimed “caviar socialist”, my caviar – his socialism, lamented how hardened we fiscally conservative “old people” had become to the wishes of the “people”. The mean spirited American ideal of education, hard work and opportunity for all was just a bromide invented by the American bourgeoisie in a nefarious plot to stifle the true wishes of the “people”.

“Ah, for those carefree days, when my motto was “C’est Mon Pere Qui Paie” – it’s my father who pays – how have they gone by so quickly and weren’t they sweet… but alas, a return to New York and the reality of having to earn a living. An $80,000 starting salary, a fortune by French socialist standards, I will soon be king of the “Big Apple” and dining on caviar and champagne. WHAT! An incremental federal tax of 25%, state tax of 6.85%, city tax of 3.65%, my half of social security 6.2% and don’t forget 1.45% for Medicare – what’s left for me, only 57% and I have to pay $2,000 for a studio apartment. C’mon Pops you can help out with the rent? Oh, I’m a little short this week, you think you can give me a couple of hundred?”

The crotchety old man dispenses his words of wisdom: “Don’t worry my son work hard and you can join the wealthy 1-2% of top earners with over $250,000/annum, then President Obama and Governor Paterson will give you the pleasure of paying an additional 15% on your incremental income – they will get 52% and you will be the lucky recipient of 48%. Count your blessings kid, you don’t have to kick in the 6.2% for social security above $106,800…. yet. And with that tidy sum maybe some day, if you scrimp and save, you can afford to buy a one-bedroom apartment, probably not in the best neighborhood. You rich people have it so good.”

Reality, it has a way of humbling us all. “Ah, did I forget to tell you my son, President Obama, has big plans for you successful young men and women. You get to pay for his great new American social experiment. To tell you the truth, I would prefer democratic evolution to social revolution but you young people have your opportunity to show us old fogies how clever you are. ”

Perhaps the fiscal 2009 deficit of $1.75 trillion should be viewed as an anomaly since it’s the direct result of the $700 billion Bush TARP plan and the $800 billion Obama Stimulus Plan, both implemented to ameliorate the effects of the financial crisis and recession. But how can you justify an average deficit of $700 billion annually from 2010 to 20019, which, according to the Obama budget, will be boom times? GDP will likely rise to an eye-popping $23 trillion in 2019 based on the Obama budget. However, expenses will grow to nearly $5.2 trillion and “taxing the rich” will not pay for it.

Obama Administration Budget (In billions of dollars)

  2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
GDP $14,240 $14,729 $15,500 $16,470 $17,498 $18,836 $19,205 $20,952 $20,952 $21,884 $22,858
Outlays $3,938 $3,552 $3,625 $3,662 $3,856 $4,069 $4,258 $4,493 $4,678 $4,868 $5,158
Deficit $1,752 $1,171 $912 $581 $533 $570 $583 $637 $636 $634 $712


Is this “A New Era of Responsibility”? If we take the administration’s rosy recovery scenario at face value, fiscal 2010 GDP will grow by a very healthy 3.4% and federal outlays will be a breathtaking $3.6 trillion, or 24.1% of the projected $14.7 trillion GDP. Since federal receipts will only be $2.4 trillion, a deficit of $1.2 trillion will be incurred in fiscal 2010. This is only the beginning of a recurrent pattern: rosy growth projections for GDP, increased spending and unprecedented deficits as far as the eye can see. Deficits dip from 2012 to 2015 and then continue merrily higher for the rest of the decade without respite. In fact, the projected deficit in the Obama Budget is $7.0 trillion for the decade 2010 to 2019. That’s the good news!

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has concluded that, if the Obama budget were approved, the federal government would actually run even larger deficits averaging nearly $1 trillion a year over the next decade. The cumulative deficit from 2010-19 would be $9.3 trillion, according to the report – $2.3 trillion more than the administration’s forecast. The main reason for the difference in budget estimates is a difference in economic growth, with congressional views of long-term growth less optimistic than those of the White House.

I fear the Obamanomics road to national insolvency is paved with red ink. “But don’t worry my son, work a little harder and you can pay off the annual $1 trillion Obama deficit and with what’s left over you can buy a slice of pizza.”

278 Responses to “My Son The Socialist – Confronts Reality”

  1. My only rebuttle will be a quote from my good friend Mr. Wilde:

    “Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination.”

    Hats off to you as well Mr. Obama!

    When I suggested that you engage your readership more… I was not actually referring to myself.

    Since we’re on the subject though, I could use some help paying my cable bill : )

  2. And for the record, I am a Machiavellian with social tendencies, not a socialist!


    The Generous Prince

  3. Perhaps you should have directed your offspring into finance or economics and then before joining the evangelical wing of the republican party he could have predicted the capitalist crash and saved you money. You were too indulgent. The world has changed my friend and the coming months will shew even to you that your economic nostrums are as worthless as anyone elses.

  4. before you judge the Obama team’s budget plan so harshley, please recall that it is the previous reppublican adminstration who has put the ocuntry, nay the world in the economic situation. Without this deficiit spending and the associated “corporate welfare that has been doled out”, things would be far worse. IYou freee market iidiots are so myopic!

  5. @guy d: Think again. Or maybe, think! Bush certainly spent like a drunken sailor but Obama as come in to fire the last nail into the coffin of this nation. We will NOT be able to pay this amount of money back. Its going to mathematical chain reaction of interest compounding – on the side of DEBT. We will be bankrupt and broke within 5-8 years.

    @orville: I didnt hear ANYONE predict this economic crash. Neither left nor right nor center. Everyone is to blame and no one cares what is happening to the average guy. Our idiot bankers are raising our interest rates while lowering our credit limits (thus causing us to look like we’re getting into more personal debt). Then they say they cant loan money to us because our debt-credit ratio is out of whack. This is bullshit and everyone knows it.

    The best thing that can happen to this nation, now, is a full all out revolt resulting in the firing of Nancy Pelosi and her cronies. THESE are the idiots that are responsible for putting that final nail in this nation’s coffin. Not Obama and not Bush. Obama is merely a puppet who is directed by Pelosi and as far as she is concerned he is LUCKY to have been purchased his presidency with the ton of illegal money and votes from overseas, as well as all of the other funny business coming from the states of CA and IL. I hope they have a career “plan b” because politician isnt going to be their title much longer.

  6. guy d,

    If I might just quote you:

    “IYou freee market iidiots are so myopic!”

    Dare To Be Stupid, guy. And with such panache!

  7. I think my father and brother should settle this matter via cage match. Al those in favor…

    Guy D, If you really believe that the last administration put us in this economic predicament exclusively, I would ask you to revisit the Clinton administration and their work with the Glass Stegall Act.

  8. The anti-Bush fairy tales abound in amazingly huge and enthusiastic diversity. Wow, what creativity and rhetoric! We seem to live in a world these days that everyone claims to be an expert but no one requires proof, except of course, if it goes against your views.

    As a diversity program leader, I am very happy about Obama’s victory. I’m also not so happy with a lot of stuff that went on in the last administration.

    However, I don’t like fairy tales and grow tired of the games that get played without any accountability – especially public policy based on pseudo-science or no science.

    Bush’s deficit did not increase your taxes or make worse our economy, and what most don’t realize is that much of that deficit went into the economy of nearly every state in the union. What we don’t know is how much worse our economy would be now if we were not at war.

    If you want to truth you have to dig. The media can no longer be trusted to simply report. Their motto “the people have a right to know” has been rewritten to “the people will believe our world views.”

    We all can step a little more out of our laziness and expand our information sources with an open mind.

  9. What is it that you think Socialism is?

    Does your son hold the same definition?

    Does Marx?

    Does any prominent Socialist Party in the world?

  10. I think the French Socialist party is fairly representative of the group:
    Control the banks
    Control the insurance companies
    Control all major domestic companies even if it is only with one “golden share” that prevents management from taking definitive action without the approval of government.

    When the central authorities control the money; the hearts and minds of the populace will soon follow. It does not augur well for individual freedom.

  11. @Mike: If you hadn’t heard anyone predict the economic crash to earth, maybe you were listening to the wrong people. The earliest reference I can find at the moment is Peter Schiff back in 2006, stating he wasn’t sure if the recession would hit in 2007 or 2008, but it’s coming.

    Also, Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND) called the bluff on derivative swaps (same product family as the mortgage backed securities that tanked the big boys) back in 1994. Those were Clinton days, if memory serves me, and nobody listened.

    @guy d: Bush was retched on economics. Obama is proving to be worse. Where is the logic in handing money to people who’ve already proved they can’t be trusted to make the right decisions?

    Take the Detroit 3 (because they’re the easiest target). They latched onto a fad, made bigger and bigger cars and trucks that had crap gas mileage, and when the gas prices spiked, they got screwed. One 6 month spike in a commodity and they crumbled.

    They didn’t play it safe, they didn’t have much invested in efficiency. they didn’t diversify. Any investment advisor worth his salt will tell you that it’s diversity in investment that mitigates risk, that’s just common sense. Unfortunately, it doesn’t promise the high yields of throwing all your money into one basket and praying to the Almighty that it was the one going up instead of down…

    @Graybe, MD: Bush’s expenditures didn’t raise taxes because the money was borrowed and/or printed. It’s still gotta be paid back eventually. Maybe not by you (depending on how old you are), but probably by me and definitely by my kids. Obama’s deficits will be pushed off to my grandkids (if my kids are lucky), or will end in hyperinflation of the currency (if they’re not). It’ll be Germany, circa 1924. “I’ll take 2 loaves of bread, please” “That’ll be two silver pennies, or half a wheelbarrow of dollars, sir.”

  12. Although I said that my only rebuttal was going to be a quote from Oscar Wilde and a claim to Machiavellianism, I feel truly compelled to defend my honor.

    @ The Original post and some of the subsequent comments
    In no way should I be pitied or placed on a pedestal to represent others that are unlike (or in some ways like) myself.
    My personal life experience has only led me to value and promote (through argument) certain values that I have been exposed to while living in and visiting contemporary socially democratic societies.

    On that note,
    Whether these countries are truly socialist in a Marxist way is absolutely irrelevant!

    Ad Hominem attacks on political ideologies and their respective redefinition over the course of the past century is the issue at hand.

    I love when modern day republicans attack socialism with the assumption that no educated and informed individual could possibly adhere to such a political philosophy. Anti patriotic arguments, anti hard work arguments, the red scare, communism, and so on… (A brief history of the past 80 years in America)

    Republicanism as a political philosophy is based on the premise that the good of the group should come before that of the individual, and more so than any other bears little to no resemblance to its original definition! Trickle down… MY ASS (and please pardon my French, it shall not slip again)

    Democracy as a system aims to achieve equality, and in many ways, current day republicans and conservatives are unwilling to pay their fair share for it.

    I will leave my true philosophical thoughts on democracy for another discussion…

    You are only a product of the society in which you have been raised and hence owe your livelihood to it!

    The Churchill quote is a fantastic quote! The problem is that the word conservative is nowadays associated (by the general public) to the Republican Party.

    After re-reading most of what I have written I find certain hollow points in my arguments… Please feel free to point them out and I will be happy to deliberate on any of them! No philosophical or political argument has ever been constructed in a bulletproof fashion and I am happy to open up and learn from others.

    Let me finish by asserting some of my learned values;

    Do I think that everyone should have affordable healthcare?
    I do…
    Do I think that everyone should receive the best education available suited to their intellectual capacities?
    I do…
    Do I think that yearly salaries should be capped at sum X? (Lets say $20 million)
    I do…
    Do I think that further government regulation is a necessity in order to protect the interest of the general public?
    I do…
    Do I think that people like myself that are educated, hard working, rational beings should kick in significantly more in goal of assuring the perpetuation of our society and its ideals?
    I do…
    Will I fight to make this happen?
    I will…

    People are greedy and unwilling; a will is what makes a man.


    @ Orville

    I am pretty sure that you have a few screws loose…

    @Guy D

    Pointing fingers will do us no good… Think constructively and avoid myopic slurs if you will…


    Too many nails in coffins… Here is a new metaphor for you; nothing is yet etched in stone.


    Drop the handle: Red-Menace (just a suggestion)… The man can’t be myopic; if he were he would have fixed all of his typos. I tip my hat to you.

    @Chris B

    The closest we are going to get to a cage match is a squash match…

    I tip my hat to you as well sir!


    I respect diversity programs and I respect President Obama, but I do think that his fiscal policies should be this risky and I fear (out of responsibility) what the outcomes could be.

    War is in fact one of the greatest economic drivers known to man! It is what built the country that we now live in. That does not however mean that it is the proper way to proceed in goal of attaining long lasting economic stability.

    I agree, If you want the truth you do have to dig! People need to dig into books though, then they might have the tools to deconstruct the arguments put forth in the main stream media.

    Lessons in rhetoric and persuasion should be mandatory for all, alongside a college education.

    @Caleb T

    I feel that I have adequately addressed your questions above. You asked them so I assume that you care about the response. I hope that you are satisfied with the rebuttal.

    @ William

    The French are an example of a social democracy (not the best one given many facts that you have stated). They are faced with many issues we are not! Lets not forget the Swedes and the Norwegians who have actually succeeded many places where the French have failed.

    Are we not Americans? I thought we were known for taking things that others had created and making them better?


    Many valid points…

    As the clock strikes three it is time for me to sleep so that I may be productive later on today and work off my personal and this countries current and future debt.

  13. Isn’t it amazing how reality kicks in when the young have to provide their own financing for their life style? I can’t help but laugh at this because, when my own son starts complaining about how tough life is, my response is, “Being a grownup sucks doesn’t it?”

  14. man, you have no idea what socialism is.

  15. @Keith

    I lived in a Socialist country for 15 years and one with the very real socialist government of Francois Mitterrand. In 1981 he nationalized virtually every important industry and by 1986 after the country nearly collapsed he was forced to reverse virtually all of his policies despite that he remained president until 1995.

    It is the average working man who suffers the pain of paying for all the glorified social programs. Anyone who thinks it’s a “good deal” to be a working man in a socialist country should be condemned to spend 10 years as a French employee.

    “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessing; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries” – Winston Churchill

  16. “The problem with socialism is that you eventually, run out of other people’s money.” – Margaret Thatcher

  17. I have made no claim to being a socialist! although my previous comments and arguments can be misconstrued in a fallacious fashion, It would require a serious logical leap to do so.

    I am only affirming a belief structure that is socially and ethically minded. Something that In my opinion many of our countrymen have a hard time grasping on an intellectual level.

    Fortunately for us as a nation, President Obama “seems” to believe in a socially minded ethics. All of you who are complaining about Obama and calling him a socialist, where has every cent of the bailout money gone so far?

    Towards the repairing of corporate and financial greed! I hope he can prevent the latter from ever happening again. The day when the average American person finally benefits from one of his policies turned to law, we can open up the discussion again.

  18. After watching a lot of these debates about socialism vs capitalism, I have to say something.

    In Acts, the Apostles do advocate what seems to be socialism. Everyone sold what they had, or gave it to the Apostles, and no one went hungry or complained.

    That does sound like socialism to me. Now for the problem with socialism. The Apostles and Scripture, had a community of BELIEVERS who shared a common ideal. Socialism for them, was about a shared vision, shared ministry, shared motive of spreading the Gospel. It was about the message. What they had, they combined so everyone working toward the Kingdom, did not have to worry about filling their bellies or clothing their backs. As a matter of fact, many denominations still do this regularly. They care for their priests/ministers and all their needs. Housing, insurance, clothing, food etc. for every one of them, so they can be free to preach the Gospel and tend the flock. The flock gives what they have to support the church and its members, and the church in turn runs a food bank, or offers monetary assistance to the the flock when they are in need. They help those in need in many other ways at well (at least the Catholic church does through Catholic Charities, hospitals, schools, and tons of other programs, not sure about other denominations)

    Do you want to see a similar form of socialism in this country? FLDS (the polygamist mormons in those compounds out west). Those folks own nothing, have nothing, it all goes to the leaders of their communites. They just have babies, then marry them off to have more babies.

    Why would the Apostles advocate socialism in their midst, and why do Americans fight so hard against it? Why won’t it work here? In a simple answer, our “diversity” will prevent it from ever working. We do not have a shared set of values. We do not know what the man or woman next to us will do, how they will do it, based on what they believe. What one man calls vice, another calls virtue. We are not like ants, or honeybees. Someone will consider themselves “a little more equal” than everyone else, black markets will appear, hatred will rise, and people who feel slighted will revolt.

    What keeps people FROM revolting IS capitalism. In its truest form, the free market allows anyone with an idea, to bring it to market and sell it to a willing buyer for the value of that product. It means no matter who you are, you can become who you want to be IF YOU ARE WILLING TO WORK FOR IT.

    We are all created equal. Equality of opportunity does NOT guarantee equality of OUTCOME. Only socialism guarantees equality of outcome, and if one looks back at every single example of socialistic governments, you will not find ONE , NOT ONE that has thrived and done well. You can look back at history of the past, or just watch the news today to see the people of SOCIALIST or COMMUNIST countries risking their lives to get HERE, across oceans on pieces of WOOD, in shark infested waters. Crossing borders through deserts risking life and limb. WHY are they fleeing their socialist country to get here if its so great and our capitalist system is so bad??? They have all turned into dictatorships and worse.

    Learn history, understand, socialism will not work this time either, and we risk much more than a little country rising and falling. WE are the economic engine of the world! Our fall will harm the very countries you are so worried about loving us so much.

  19. You can’t have lived in a socialist country, b/c a Socialism has never existed.

    One thing socialism definitely is not: Big bloated “government programs” that are funded by redistribution of wealth after it is gained in the private sector.

  20. and Michelle, if you think society resembles anything close to a free market or a meritocracy, then you’ve visited us from another dimension.

  21. “All of you who are complaining about Obama and calling him a socialist, where has every cent of the bailout money gone so far?

    Towards the repairing of corporate and financial greed”!

    Alessandro has obviously swallowed the Obama/liberal party line.
    The financial situation we face today is 100% due to lack of oversight by Congressional oversight committees. Congress was repeatedly warned about the upcoming collapse and chose to do nothing.
    Screaming G R E E D as the cause of all this makes you look rather foolish.

  22. Joaquin, that’s the kettle calling the pot black. Yes, Congress did nothing, but had the corporations not exhibited greed, they wouldn’t have had to in the first place.

  23. People get the Govenment they ask for!!!! ENJOY!!!!!!

  24. Do you know what socialism is? Here’s my interpretation:
    * Big government, lots of government control
    * Fewer property rights
    * Higher taxes to finance the big government
    * Redistribution of wealth
    * More regulation

    Does that sound like you?

    If you take all the socialist countries and average the standard of life there, then take all the capitalist countries and average the standard of life there, which average do you think is going to be better? (I mean way, way better.) Why is this so hard to understand?

    “Do I think that everyone should have affordable healthcare?
    I do…”

    Do you think you should take money by force from some to pay for the healthcare of others? That’s almost childish in my opinion. Do you think a government can take the money and spend it more efficiently than an individual or a family? Do you think this has ever worked in the history of mankind? Why do people come here from all over the world for health care? Why do people in most socialist countries, countries with good intentions, suffer health problems beyond comprehension? Because those countries take from people who are doing well and give to those who are not doing well (I mean, they try) and in the process destroy the economy. But the thing is that the poor and the unhealthy are way better off in the land of plenty. Simple as that. People don’t starve around here. If you’re shot or you break an arm, someone will stitch you up around here, regardless of your health coverage.

    “Do I think that everyone should receive the best education available suited to their intellectual capacities?
    I do…”

    Do you think that the government should take money by force from those who have some (any) money to pay for the education of others? Do you think that the government can do this more efficiently than an extended family? We spend by far the most money on education, per capita, in the world. Where’s that gotten us? Why is it that some of the best grade schools and high schools in the country have zero advantages in terms of influx of money than some of the worst? Education will not improve by allowing the government to take money by force from people. It never has.

    “Do I think that yearly salaries should be capped at sum X? (Lets say $20 million)
    I do…”

    And the rest should be given to the government to spend on inefficient, wasteful programs? (Are there any efficient, non-wasteful government programs? Is there anything the government does that the private sector couldn’t do infinitely better? Everyone complains about the drug companies, for example, but don’t we produce here in the U.S., with our supposedly crappy Capitalist Pig system, the best drugs in the world? Doesn’t this system that allow people to get ridiculously rich save more lives than any other? Show me a socialist system that’s ever been so successful. And tell my why you’d want to replace a successful system with a system that has been proven to fail.

    “Do I think that further government regulation is a necessity in order to protect the interest of the general public?
    I do…”

    Again with the government. Imagining that the government is going to take care of you is easy. And a little naive. Look at history. Or, focus on the present instead and just look at the state of the various economies around the world. Who’s doing well? Is it the socialist states with governments that are overprotective of their people (regulation, red tape, tariffs, excessive licensing requirements, import/export control, control of major industries, media control, religious police, etc.). Or, is it the countries that strive to provide as much freedom as possible? Really, try to look logically at the question.

    “Do I think that people like myself that are educated, hard working, rational beings should kick in significantly more in goal of assuring the perpetuation of our society and its ideals?
    I do…”

    Do you think you should force people to do this, under penalty of prison? Or, do you think it might be better to educate everyone on the good they can do?

    “Will I fight to make this happen?
    I will…”

    I know you’re a good guy. You mean well. That’s the scariest type of warrior that there is. I lived in Venezuela, Peru, and many other countries. My parents moved about once a year because of work. I’ve seen many of these countries go socialist, and I have seen them go from beautiful, prosperous, safe countries, to dangerous places that I would not dare visit now. They were all lead by people that wanted to make a difference and that wanted to help the working man.

  25. Exhibited greed? How so, Samuel? By purchasing/bundling government backed mortgages,a practice that had been going on for years? Are you saying that government backed mortgages became toxic just like that? Really?
    Take loose FreddieMac and FannieMae regulation out of this equation and this entire crisis evaporates.
    Try again.

  26. Kudos to a good blog; an honest opine of one’s perspective of their ever evolving prodigy.
    And thanks for the subject’s rebuttal as well.

    While I might have agreed here and there with some of the comments made by other commenters, I do so with melancholic laughter upon so many who are so self-aggrandized as to jump into any conversation without respect to the topic simply in order to build their own soapbox. Perhaps most telling of most commetaries herein is that those making them are here essentially attempting to stealing someone else’s hard earned forum as their own.


    “Ah, there’s a smart one,” I thought.
    Sufficiently succint arguments to not just encourage, but actually propel me to respond. Good work.
    The tell that you did your own task so well is that your opponent (responding opinionators opposing your view) had not any arguments to WHAT you said, but resorted to the most simple of the Alinsky strategies directed to instead attempt riducule the messenger.
    So again, well put my young lady.

    Olberman appears to be at it again… When will you learn? You went to a low tier ag school, NOT the ivy league, so please stop pretending (and encouraging like minded soapboxers) that insulting someone is a valid substitute of an intelligent argument of their belief.

  27. Your “interpretation” of Socialism is wholly and completely incorrect, Donnie.

  28. Sevan, who did I insult?

  29. I have many rebuttals to things that have been posted since my last… In the meantime, some food for thought.

    “Love alone can unite living beings so as to complete and fulfill them… for it alone joins them by what is deepest in themselves. All we need is to imagine our ability to love developing until it embraces the totality of men and the earth. Love is the affinity which links and draws together the elements of the world… Love, in fact, is the agent of universal synthesis.”

    Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

  30. These are pretty primitive views of socialism(above). The US is already quite socialist, and obviously relies on that bearing. The country would’ve gone down the tubes long ago had the people not reined in “free enterprise”, industry, and finance. However, those socialist controls have been eroded since Reagan, and we are now headed down as a consequence.

    But the people are banding together [the socialist spirit], and are determined to do what they must to save it. While bailing out the finance industry probably won’t work, it’s a start. But make no mistake, its the people, not the corporations, working together.

  31. What Donnie means is that the emerging people’s societies in Latin America are closing their doors to exploitation by people like his family — foreigners taking a huge cut of the resources and labor.

  32. Winston Churchill was a Zionists racist supremest he called the Palestinians dogs and believed they should be exterminated and have no entitlement to theirs own lands. Guy would also have naked bath party’s where he was the only one naked…

    I like communist anarchism myself it is a stateless socialism. went on for three years in 1936 Spanish Revolution then the facists from Italy and Russia ruined it.

  33. How can we believe your misguide economic and political views, when you cannot even get the quote right?

    Furthermore, the Churchill Centre, on its Falsely Attributed Quotations page, states “there is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this.” Paul Addison of Edinburgh University is quoted as stating: “Surely Churchill can’t have used the words attributed to him. He’d been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?”

  34. Wow, Tomas. Your reading comprehension appears to be approximately nil. Let’s look at what Donnie said side by side with your response:

    I’ve seen many of these countries go socialist, and I have seen them go from beautiful, prosperous, safe countries, to dangerous places that I would not dare visit now.

    What Donnie means is that the emerging people’s societies in Latin America are closing their doors to exploitation by people like his family — foreigners taking a huge cut of the resources and labor.

    So you consider expecting to be able to walk down the street safely to be a form of economic exploitation? I thought not. So at a minimum you are guilty of fraudulently ignoring large parts of your opponent’s argument, whether willfully or by lack of intelligence I cannot be sure. Therefore I will not attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity (it’s kinder to give you the benefit of the doubt).

    Next, “closing their doors to exploitation” is a really strange way to describe burning down the house to guarantee that if you can’t have it, no one else will either.

    Oh, and the beauty of our republican system (that is, the USA is a constitutional democracy, nothing to do with the Republican party which is tearing the Constitution to shreds as fast as anyone else), is that it enables the people to reign in excesses. That is the people’s job, and they have myriad voices to do it with (the vote, the wallet, the court of public opinion), not the government’s. The “socialist controls” as you call them, have caused the current economic collapse. But that’s what you wanted anyway, isn’t it, because it “ends the exploitation of the common people by the stockholders”. Nevermind that in the USA, owning stock is not reserved for the rich but stocks are actually the backbone of the retirement accounts of the common people, whether administered by themselves or (unfortunately) by the government in the gross mismanagement of the social security trust funds.

  35. And my quote tags got eaten. Anyway the second paragraph is a direct quote from Donnie, the third is Tomas’s commentary on Donnie which I was critiquing,

  36. Does he think that he has a right to point a gun at my head and pick my pocket?

    He does…

  37. Ok, I shouldn’t post when tired. Obviously that was supposed to say “the USA is a constitutional republic, not a democracy, nothing to do with the Republican party”.

  38. Words will not work. When things get rough, you need guns and ammo.

  39. It’s funny how Americans love to bash socialism, even when they seldom know what it is.

    Latin America has a lot of tragic stories of totalitarian regimes, death squads, guerrilla and terrorism. What you seem to ignore is where these tend to come from. The Nicaraguan Contras fought against a democratically elected government the US didn’t like because it threatened US financial interests in the country. So, the US funded the Contras and trained them in torture, terrorism and other terrible activities. The same deal in Chile, Brazil, Colombia, and many many other countries. Countries where fledgeling democracies have started, only to be rudely and brutally undermined and crushed by the USA, at great cost of life and prosperity. What your nation has done in Latin America is evil. Nothing less. Death squads, military juntas, secret police, guerillas, terrorists. All funded by the US in order to secure financial interests in these nations. So perhaps it is small wonder both that socialism has a strong backing in Latin America given that the US of A has oppressed the poor, and crushed their attempts at standing up. Perhaps there is small wonder they will lash out against the US like Chavez has done on many occasions. Not because they have an uncalled for hatred of the US, but because they are rightly furious and enraged that the US has gone in with violent force and removed their democratically elected governments, that the US has gone in and killed, tortured and broken down the poor and the weak. No, to stand up against a tyrant – foreign or domestic – who has been oppressing your people is a just cause. And while the US has done a lot of good, it like any superpower, has also done some wrong things. Such things as the numerous and bloody interventions in Latin America.

    Also, Ben, maybe you should look a little less at nations whose politics you have tried to control with violence and oppression if you’re searching for places to see the effect of socialism. After all, if you want to observe whether or not something works, it is seldom a good idea to smash it with a sledgehammer while you’re observing it. Look instead to Sweden, or Norway. Or other European nations where socialistic principles have been applied with great success. In part because violent US intervention has not occurred. Socialistic democracy works. Scandinavia offers thorough empirical evidence to support that. If you compare the US with Scandinavia you will find that the US falls behind on almost any statistic.

  40. [...] Get Started Campaign Staff Now Hiring Grassroots Campaigns My Son The Socialist Confronts Reality – A young man’s rude awakening - Commentary: [...]

  41. i wish that churchill quote had specified that he was referring to liberal and conservative fiscal policy. im 25 and i know lots of people my age who are very fiscally conservative and are only liberal regarding social policy.

    i don’t think that the average young person, who produces more than they consume, appreciates our country’s swing towards socialism when they compare their gross income to their net income.

  42. The 10 Cannots

    By William J. H. Boetcker
    (wrongfully attributed to Abraham Lincoln)

    You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

    You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.

    You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

    You cannot build character and courage by taking away man’s initiative and independence.

    You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.

    You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

    You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.

    You cannot establish security on borrowed money.

    You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.

    Government intervention does not work. What does the government do well? Other than tax people…? It definitely isn’t oversight (hint: Congress is a complete failure as a whole and 95% of them individually) Waiting for an answer…. Consider this: there were over 200 govt employees auditing and providing oversight for Freddie and Fannie annually. Freddie and Fannie were given satisfactory reviews on their audit then a few months later the whole d*mn thing fell apart. So, again what does the govt do well? Why would I ever want them to be involved in my life at any level?

  43. Please stop the misleading scare stories about Venezuela. You are only playing into the hands of the powerful, self=serving corporations (think of GM, Big Oil closer to home) and their lackeys in government who see a foreign leader who dares to serve the interests of his people, rather than turning a corrupt, blind eye as the country’s wealth gets ripped off. I have visited and worked in Venezuela twice in recent years and was shocked to hear how oppressive life was for the majority of the population before Chavez was elected. On the other hand, I was greatly impressed by the programs that have been put in place by the Chavez government. Free education and quality healthcare is provided to ALL citizens, and while you mention that the US has developed [some of] the best medicines in the world, it does an appallingly inefficient job of providing them to its citizens. I received advanced medical treatments in Venezuela for free that my overpaid bloated insurance company in the US would not pay for. Socialism is looking increasingly more attractive to me. If we can socialize the debts of corporations, we can socialize their profits.

  44. Chris B. You must be very young. One must go back to Saint Ronald who left government much larger than he found it, who dismantled the solar roof on the White House (such a ridiculous object he thought). For a really startling look at politics in this country read The Progressive’s 100th anniversary issue.
    Ta – jj

  45. Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.

  46. Anyone thinking that Socialism is the be-all, end-all of economies, should read Rerum Novarum by Pope Leo XIII. This was written in the 19th Century and was prophetic. Almost every bad happening foretold in the encyclical has come to pass.

  47. What an insult to real socialists!!! I don’t know any socialist who is unemployed and asking for handout; I myself work two jobs. Socialism doesn’t mean giving charity and handouts to big corporations or your son or daughter for that matter. It means organizing society to benefit the masses, average working people and creating living wage jobs. It means free high quality health care from cradle to grave, free education to fill those jobs and many more, and a reduction in work hours due to full employment. Capitalism always has booms followed by busts and each time this happens, more and more people face a declining standard of living while a small minority are making money hand over fist at the expense of us. Check out the following animated video to understand what socialism really is.


  48. Let me be the first (I believe) to comment on the fantastic debate going on here, I love it, and find it very eye-opening and provocative. Anyone reading through these comments is forced to question and prod their own convictions in the face of their antipodes in the forms of all these different views. Wonderful.

    I am young. Probably younger than you think; however, I’d like to ask, where is the flaw in recognizing that the collective human condition determines the individual human condition (and, albeit much more arguably, vice versa)? It seems to me that this is the basis of both Socialism and Capitalism. Broadly speaking — and I mean VERY broadly speaking — Socialism sees the collective (i.e., the ELEVATING factor) as more socially important than the individual, and Capitalism sees the individual (the ELEVATED product) as more socially important than the collective. If the outcome of the ultimate argument of Socialism vs. Capitalism is as clear to some of you as you claim, whether you be staunch Socialist or Capitalist, then the coin you’re flipping is one-sided. For the collective and the individual are dialectical opposites, and as such, BOTH needed in order to manifest and propel a democratically minded society. Call me a fence-sitter, call me young and stupid, but the answer to me doesn’t seem to be Socialism OR Capitalism, but both. In a diluted form, we need Republicans to clean up the mess Democrats make, and we need Democrats to clean up the mess Republicans make (in this era we just happen to be involved in the latter).

  49. TYRANNY: Any political system that does not recognize individual rights.

    The American Revolution was an action taken in response to Tyranny.

  50. The capitalism vs socialism discussion is always an interesting conversation. However we never have had capitalism. Corporate welfare, better known as Mercantilism, has been around for ages and is what we have come to know as capitalism. The regulations government imposes does it’s best to protect the oligopolies and businesses politically connected. Oh, anyone can still take an idea and become wealthy. They will have to over come not only the competition but the government as well.

    Socialism from what I’ve been able to read is another form of central planning. The only way the central planner’s plan can work is to have even more control over the people. In essence the central planner needs to control everyone and everything. Central planning kills off the individual. This is not the life I want nor is this the life the Founding Fathers of this country fought for.

    Just look at some of the central planning institutions that the United States has created in the name of the collective: the Federal Reserve. It’s job is suppose to smooth out the business cycles but instead it has created bubble after bubble. The Federal Reserve takes us from one failed monetary policy to the next. Department of Education: it was given $60 billion in the stimulus yet education in this country continues to get worse, why should home schooling or Vouchers be under attack from the government and unions? There are plenty more examples. Pick any of the alphabet agency of Executive branch: FDA, EPA, Department of Energy etc.

    I’m just not convinced I should happily have 60% of my earnings taken from me in order to live the life the central planner has laid out for me.

  51. @Tyrone: In reference to genuine, hard-heeled Socialism, you are correct. Centralization of, well, everything, is he essence of such tyrannous regimes as Stalin’s, and indeed the culmination of the oh-so-American caricature of what all kinds of Socialism are. But what of Democratic Socialism? Where the planner is not D.C., not Moscow, not the Federal Reserve, but the PEOPLE the nation over? Where the “central planner” does not shape the will of the people, but expresses the will of the people, because it IS the will of the people? I don’t presume that this system has ever existed, nor that it would work if it did, merely pointing out that not all Socialistic systems are Stalin’s. Thus, generalizing that Socialism will ALWAYS be a central planner or will ALWAYS pick more than half of your pocket is a very narrow view of the system.

  52. You sir, are an idiot and you lack a fundamental understanding of both our tax system and basic math.

    There are so many flaws, but addressing only two of them:

    1) Learn what a marginal tax rate is. (Wikipedia can help you with this.) An individual’s marginal tax rate (the percentage applied to the last dollar earned) has no effect on income taxed at lower brackets. You’re taxed at each bracket only for the dollars earned within that bracket; not all of your income is taxed at the highest rate.

    2) You rest your ideas on incorrect assumptions. For instance, you’re assuming that a person at the top end of income will not contribute to a tax-preferred retirement fund, will have little/no deductions and will have only regular income (ie, no capital gains from investments). Also, assume that the budget from this year will apply consistently throughout the Obama presidency without change for at least two years after Obama is president.

  53. A man younger than 30 who’s not a liberal has no heart and a man older than 30 who’s not a conservative knows all the facts.

    Not only does someone who goes conservative because their income tax is too high have no clue why they became liberal in the first place, but the belief in a meritocracy is an utter delusion. How many people who tell you that “I made my own way” have no clue just how subsidized their lifestyles are by the federal government: highways, cheap food (yes, our food is way cheaper relative to income than almost anyone else’s in the world), cheap gas, an infrastructure that isn’t constantly crumbling… The list goes on. Your son’s personal anecdote illustrates his stupidity not his maturity.

  54. Do you believe in the Constitution? Do you swear to protect it and allow no misuse of it? Are you willing to fight for every bit of the Constitution?
    The republicans and democrats both are in violation of the US Constitution, the 13th Amendment. They favor unfair racist laws that establish blacks as a class with special privileges unequal to and above those of the remainder of Americans, to include: affirmative action, quotas, educational set asides, business set asides, employment non firing and other similar constitutional abridgements. Most Americans are against such illegal laws. They are in violation of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution.
    The Founders Fathers of Our Nation held an intense disdain and distrust of a privileged “Nobility” as a result of a long history, during Colonial times, of abuses and excesses against the Rights of Man and the established Common Law and Constitutions by the privileged “Nobility”, and therefore placed in the new Constitution two injunctions against the use or recognition of “Titles of Nobility or Honor” and acceptance of any emoluments whatever from external sources, the first pertaining to the federal government, Article I, Section 9, and the second pertaining to the individual states, Article I, Section 10.
    The Revolutionary War for Independence was primarily waged to eliminate these abuses and excesses of the “Nobility” from the life of the Nation, recognizing the Equality of all men. As there was no penalty attached to accepting, claiming, receiving or retaining a title of nobility or honor or emoluments in the Constitution as originally ratified, the Thirteenth Amendment was proposed in December of 1809 to institute penalty for accepting or using a “Title of Nobility or Honour” to set oneself apart from, or superior to, or possessing of any special privileges or immunities not available to any other citizen of the United States. It also instituted the same penalty for accepting and retaining any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any Emperor, King, Prince, or foreign Power. An emolument is payment in any form for services rendered or to be rendered, or as understood today, a graft or a bribe.
    The blacks in America are enjoying special privileges of a false racial nobility to include: affirmative action, quotas, preference in education, employment, promotion and other privileges guaranteed only to a privileged race or group acting as a nobility.
    have a Masters Degree in Psychology and I have completed most of my doctorate. I was trained to spot anomalies in groups including group hysteria. Mass hysteria (also called collective hysteria, mass psychogenic illness, or collective obsessional behavior) is the socio-psychological phenomenon of the manifestation of the same or similar hysterical symptoms or irrational/conditioned belief system by more than one person.
    I am going to tell you something now that you have heard nowhere else. It is a description of a strange type of mass hysteria that has gripped most white American male civilians. It is rooted in years of media conditioning or brainwashing, that is repeated relentlessly, 24-7 in every television commercial, movie, church, billboard and more. It is a form of Orwellian conditioning that has affected most American white men. It has made them more effeminate, fat, less stable, very suggestible and worshippers of black males.
    Most political analysts who are objective, and that is a tiny group, agree that resistnet, for example, is an AfroSocialist group. The white male members are imbued with a strange psychological mind set and are very emotional about it. Most of the men evidencing this new mass hysterical phenomena are not really masculine in the former definition of the term and many women notice the difference. For example women describe such males as “not the type of men who would be protective.”
    As a group, white male hysterics illogically feel that any criticism of black groups which are racist, criminal, parasitical or socialist, is itself racist and they will not allow it. They feel it very strongly and argue with a trembling emotional heretifor consider a female trait.
    White male black-hysterics are very uncomfortable and feel a sense of fear if they find themselves in all white groups. If they are in an entirely white group they begin asking themselves, “why are there no blacks here?” Sometimes, when their internal pressure builds up to the over heated pressure cooker state, they explode out loud with the question: “Why are there no blacks here, is this a racist group?” You see, on television, in movies and in advertising, there is no group without blacks in it. Although blacks are only 10% of the population, you see them in every group advertisement by public media. Most Hollywood movies now have black stars, so the conditioned white males believe that blacks are here in far more higher ratios. In interviews they have said that blacks are 30 to 60% of the American population because that is how blacks are depicted in nearly every advertisement and all media. Currently the media features Obama in positive stories daily and give him more favorable publicity than any other president in the past 50 years. It’s like the Orwellian book 1984, which describes the fact that pictures of “the leader” are everywhere and broadcast continually by the media.
    At the same time blacks are always presented as strong masculine leaders and smarter than white people, in fact blacks are promoted so zealously in the media that the media always depicts black males as the number one mating choice of attractive, even beautiful, white females. Is it any wonder that there are so many demasculated white males who want to be led by a black? They realize that they are missing a certain potency and think that by “hanging out” with blacks some of the black potency might rub off on them.
    In fact without black presence and black cultural artifacts such as jive talking, they feel positively uncomfortable. That is why they elected a black foreigner as president and why the GOP has a black leader. It does not matter what the political, criminal, racist or other beliefs of the black male are, the just have to have them. Notice how this genre of black hysterical white males greet black males with great affection and so do their wives. The look is one of adoration. Their most important agenda is black cultural dominance and although you may scoff now, sooner or later you will notice it, unless you are black-hysteric too.
    White-male black-hysterics are conditioned to believe that they are “safe” and “part of the mainstream” as long as they promote black influence. They want to please blacks with ever fiber of their soul. Anyone who disagrees is a white supremacist or baby killer or whatever other cross invective enters their fevered minds. They do not care if their chosen black leader is a tyrant or communist, in fact most of the men have some how lost their masculinity and “desire” black dominance regardless of other character factors. This psychology drive is the result of years of media conditioning. When in a self-reinforcing group white male hysterics gang up on a single white man with a vicious result, it is because they see racism everywhere. For example, on a forum I recently referred to Afroracism which is an admitted feature of most blacks, even by social scientists. I was attacked by a white male on the forum who accused me of being a racist and white supremacist who would cause the group to be destroyed by my spreading of hatred. He said, “I am a life long conservative and I have learned to recognize you racists. He denied black crime statistics, the fact that over 500,000 black males are members of armed gangs that control slices of 71 American cities, and other such facts. He tossed them all aside with more and more emotional charges of racism. He said there are more white criminals, racist, serial killers and everything that is bad, percentage wise, than there are blacks.” He was joined by several other very emotional republicans who voiced the opinion that they were “proud to be led by black leaders and in fact preferred them. There is no difference between the races.”
    When I brought up Obama, they said:”Who even notices he is black? He is just as likely to be white. People like you hate him because he is black, we are working against him because of his policies. Race has nothing to do with it.” That is their mantra. They deny the very force that has them in its trall. They elected a black criminal president to prove that they were not racist and they are rabid about it.
    The most tragic factor of this psychotic phenomena is the importance of denial. Black-hysterical white males deny not only any black culpability in anything criminal or racist, but they also deny their black-worshipping hysteria. Yet the phenomena is so well known on the street, that large numbers of white teenagers dress and talk like blacks to the extent that they are called “wiggers.”

  55. @Educated Citizen,

    I suggest you reread the article more slowly and try to understand what it actually says. You have completely mischaracterized my statements. Does the word incremental mean anything to you? If not, an investment in a dictionary would be warranted.

    The chart is merely copied from the official Obama budget – and the expense numbers are his not mine. If you had read the caption you would have noticed the source.

    Literacy is an essential part of being and educated citizen.

  56. @ C Austin: The Founding Fathers, after much research and study of other forms of government gave us a republic which had separation of powers. Unfortunately, our representatives have taken it upon themselves to ignore the will of the people and just go their own way; it doesn’t help that “We the People” continue to send the same people back to Washington.

    Democracies tend toward mob rule. We can look at some of our social issue today to see what mob rule in action. AIG bonuses comes to mind, regardless of your position on the bonuses, the mob was frightening.

    Personally, I think the Founders had it right but we were unable to keep our republic. There needs to be checks on the will of mob. Without those checks, we’ll end up in some other form of “ism” which is just another centrally planned economy.

    Without some form of individualism, personal responsibility, being rewarded for taking risks what is the incentive to be the best producer you can be? I know I have no desire to work 18 hrs a day for the collective.

    I don’t know what the answer is. I do know our republic was attacked by central planners no sooner than the ink dried on the Constitution. Would Democratic Socialism be any better? The direction the United States has been going since the 1900 will soon show us the answer.

  57. Who’s looking over the government to be sure they spread their wealth????

  58. The MAIN problem is that everyone is extremely MYOPIC. Socialism has not been ushered into this country because of Bush, Clinton, Reagan, or even Obama. Ideologies have been permanently bent towards the State as a parent over many many decades, so far so that the State now has its hand in every one of the individual’s lives. The State has wanted it this way, so then they become impossibly inseparable.
    ANY tax is wrong, whether in NY or SD. Any war is wrong, unless we are attacked on our soil. And don’t give me that 9/11 bullshit.
    However, your terminology is all wrong, as this country is not embroiled in Socialism. Get your -isms right. This country is firmly–firmly in the throes of FASCISM.
    I’m sorry about your son, but I am sure it all started because he realized his conservative republican father was a hypocrite with his views of “smaller government” speeches, and he crawled to the other extreme.

  59. A socialist would let the banks fail rather than spending all this money trying to rescue capitalism as Obama is doing. Also, a socialist would raise the marginal tax rate to significantly higher than 52% for the richest Americans. So, we would probably be running a surplus with a socialist, not a deficit.

    But nice try. I would be opposed to socialism too if I thought it meant giving large amounts of our tax dollars to rich bankers.

  60. Bah. I tried to read all the replies, but grew impatient. Still, liked the article, most of the replies that I read seemed open to reason, unlike many sites I’ve seen (try a news site once in a while… lol). I didn’t get the slightest urge to vomit, and I have no idea what the word “myopic” means, though I will probably end up looking it up later. BTW, thought the original article was well done (though my opinion honestly doesn’t count for much).

    … I am not open minded, nor do I have reason to support my views, more of a blind faith tempered with half-mad rationalizations, often made up on the spot when questioned, and merely held to in a confused, fanatical silence when further questioned. I voted Libertarian. I don’t know what those shady politicians are up to, but I think they need to be stopped, soon.

    @Admin: I too like Machiavelli, I think he had a lot of interesting stuff to say… But to balance him out, I’d recommend Sun Tzu, Miyamoto Musashi and Lao Tsu… Probably horribly mangled all those names… Which reminds me, one of these days I’ll have to look into some Confucious, I hear he’s pretty wise…

  61. Question’
    You work hard 40 hours or more a week.
    Your neighbor can, but does not want to work, but collects a monthly check.
    You have little free time or extra money for personal enjoyment.
    Your neighbor has nothing but free time and is always having a good time.
    You want to go to night school to better yourself but make too much money for a grant or loan.
    You neighbor is always taking and dropping out of classes for fun provided by grants and loans.
    After this has gone on for ten years, financially you are no better off than your neighbor.
    If we reach a point in this country where half of the able bodied people do not want to work and you are of the other half that is working and no better off, will “YOU” still want to work?

  62. While I would be hesitant to call Obama a socialist, I don’t think what he’s doing can do us any good. I’ve been of the opinion for quite a while now that the rapid decline in industry and exporting is the biggest reason for the deficit, since we don’t export enough to cover the imports that we get because domestic products are so hard to find. Add to that the loss of tariff revenues, one of the only kinds of taxes I believe in, and irresponsible government spending on mistaken ideas any reasonable, educated person should be able to spot,( read here stimulus package, Gulf War II, DHS, Clinton Impeachment Proceedings) and the fact that as the economy slows, people will stop spending and try to save, and you’ve got yourself the makings of a depression. If we really wanted a long term solution, we’d start creating more skilled manufacturing and engineering jobs and stop building Wal-Marts. Not to pick on Sam, certainly he was an excellent example of business savvy in the free market, but continually employing people with no marketable skills for next to nothing encourages indolence and stagnation, and contributes to the problem.

  63. By the way, I have worked at Wal-Mart in the past, as a means to an end, but I did. The pharmacy at most Wal-Mart’s will have a social worker to get the government to pay for drugs. I definitely think that the drug company policy of treating illness rather than fixing them even though cures are possible contibutes too. You’re poor? Spend 4-600 bucks a month and we’ll drug you up too hard to notice. HIV? Expensive antiretrovirals for you, even though we could have fixed this 2 years ago if the conservatives would let us use stem cells. No insurance? Ask Uncle Sam, his buddies the liberals will hook you up. So none of us are without sin in this. If we start governing less and allowing real scientific and industrial progress and we’ll find out that we can get better.

  64. Somebody should do something about all the problems!

    So everyone who is complaining, and wringing their hands, and cursing Obama, please answer this question: whats the alternative? No really, besides complaining…whats your solution to the problem?

    Americans, influenced by media, have come to expect magic solutions. Some smart person can figure all this out, the dummies up there in Washington are just screwing it up. Surely we can eat more and gain less weight without working out.

    There are no simple solutions, and people offering them to you are generally doing so to promote their own interests (i.e. the upper 1%). Our lazy, short sighted greed put us in this mess, and its going to take debt, higher taxes, and pain to get us out.

  65. Just a response to you opening quote…

    “If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.

    * According to research by Mark T. Shirey, citing Nice Guys Finish Seventh: False Phrases, Spurious Sayings, and Familiar Misquotations by Ralph Keyes, 1992, this quote was first uttered by mid-nineteenth century historian and statesman François Guizot when he observed, Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head. This quote has been attributed variously to George Bernard Shaw, Benjamin Disraeli, Otto von Bismarck, and others.
    * Furthermore, the Churchill Centre, on its Falsely Attributed Quotations page, states “there is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this.” Paul Addison of Edinburgh University is quoted as stating: “Surely Churchill can’t have used the words attributed to him. He’d been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?”

  66. Shared on Facebook

  67. Really? You make 225,000+ dollars and can only afford a meager 1 bedroom in a bad neighboorhood? You must not be that frugal. I make $30,000 and have better accommodations then that. Its hard to believe you make so much and have such small aspirations.

  68. For all you pounding your chests about how economics proves this man’s point wrong: I’m sorry, you’re wrong. I love this story because it is the reality we live with, which in economics. It is not some abstract poltical worship. Look, we are in this problem because of the Clinton AND Bush administrations’ efforts for low interest rates. Sorry folks, all politicians ruin your fical and economic lives, no matter which side of the isle.

  69. who gives a dam about any thing now lets just push all the buttons and do away with everything

  70. The present state of affairs stems from the system. This status quo -if you will-will not change for the egalitarian good appreciably until we rid ourselves of the utter insanity of free market capitalism. Feeding money to fat cats creating more debt for the present and future generations will not solve our economic problems Here are some things we could do..

    Let the butcher, baker, and candlestick maker leverage their money the way the banks do now. How about I from my $200 bank balance make loans to my friends, relatives, neighbors, and what not totaling -say- $3000. Then let those people take that $3000 and issue loans totaling: Oh perhaps $45,000.Let that $45,000 grow to $675,000 .This is the principle source of that “growth” that you capitalist apologists are always talking about .It’s called fractional reserve lending. Para mutual casino-like derivatives and other financial smoke and mirrors add to the insanity .That’s why the rich and powerful see no need to add value to anything or produce anything .Job one in changing the system is to eliminate making money from money or -as I said- let the proletariat take part in this false growth. Idiot Greenspan -needless to say- would define “growth” amid the exploited working class as undesirable inflation. And, it’s fairly safe to say, so would Obama. It’s no exaggeration to say that all banks have loaned scores of other banks -3 months duration- , interest only loans and have likewise borrowed from scores of other banks-3 months, interest only. Can we visualize a swarm of loans surrounding all banks likened to a swarm of flies surrounding some rotten food? Maybe cow dung is more apropos. That’s what we have. Growth under this capitalism system comes from the interest, late fees, and leveraging.

    Replace the obscene office of the U.S. President with his cabinet of Secretaries with a more parliamentary style cabinet of ministers with one prime minister acting as a far more volatile and replaceable head of state. Get rid of monarchical executive orders and signing statements. No one with wealth more than $60,000 beyond the equity in their house(s) qualifies for a ministerial position. That’s right, discrimination against the rich replacing what we have now; that being discrimination against the poor and middle class. I’d add that that represents discrimination against a lot fewer people. Public financing of elections are in order by all means. TV ads banned .Public money disbursed equally amongst all serious candidates. Paper ballets only counted at the precinct level prior to any central tabulating.

    The world needs some sort of central oversight over various currencies coupled with a big time return of tariffs .There needs to be figured out some way to fashion a system of systems such that when it comes to international trade the entire gross national product of the U.S. for instances would be worth a paltry 50-lire in Spain; in turn the entire gross national product of Spain would be worth 1 KOPEK in Russia; the entire gross national product of Russia worth the fen banknote of China or the 5c coin in Australia and so on and so forth .Apply the appropriate tariffs on top of this and a pair of shoes costing what is the equivalent of $5 these days would by law have to sell for a totally prohibitive $30,000,000,000,000 in the U.S. I think it is safe to say that companies’ moving off shore in order to take advantage of lower wages comes to a screeching halt. Also such a system of systems would buffer against international impact from inflation within nation states, currency revaluation to correct for inflation within nation states will not have impact internationally. Matters such as foreign travel will need to be worked out, and in my mind this is a formulation in progress.
    U.S. Senators are to be elected to 2 year terms, but with no implied term limits. No one with wealth more than $60,000 beyond the equity in their house(s) qualifies for the senate. Public financing, hand counted paper ballots, just as the cabinet of ministers.

    U.S representatives are elected for 1-3 month terms and are chosen randomly from a pool of volunteers much like we pick our jurors .These selections would be stair-stepped so that only 1/3 of the house would be replaced at any given time. The 2/3 that isn’t replaced will have the say-so as to who under this potentially risky system is not U.S. Representative material. We need to make sure that nut cases like Ayn Rand, Henry Kissinger or for that matter Charles Manson aren’t admitted.

    The concept of bad credit needs to be done away with. Stop refusing loans and economic activity is stimulated. The Banking and Wall Street looters get credit default swaps. The working man or woman gets their loan requests rejected. Make available the same type of put option credit default swaps for the subjugated masses the big banks give themselves Wall Street and big business.

    Most important of all, forgive all debt for the working man and woman. You’re talking about stimulating the economy. This would carry us further than anything one could envision. It’s talked about in the Bible. It’s called the year of Jubilee 1 .This occurred every 50 years .Everybody’s house -paid off. Medical debts-gone. Student loans-history. Credit card debts – long-gone. All those payment plus interest plus penalties that in our present systems transfers wealth from the many to the few could cease.
    Any corporation whether bank or not that is too big to fail is too big to be in private hands. Nationalize City Group, Morgan Chase, A.I.G., Goldman Sachs, Fannie & Freddie et al.

    In conclusion: Want to send the world’s economic woes packing .Rid the world of the economic curse we call free market capitalism. Let every man women and child on the face of the earth have access to and share the same bank account-meaning every man woman and child on the face of the earth essentially has all the money in the world. Link: London Indymedia. (Debbs speech):

    In further conclusion: It should go without saying that #3 will require immense international cooperation .Ask yourself this question. Why don’t Nebraska and Kansas ever go to war against each other because of a border dispute or whatnot? The ever so obvious reason is that it is because the sovereignty goes beyond the level of interaction or shall we term it the sphere of influence. The dispute would be settled at the federal level. What am I getting at here? Just this .We need one world government. Mind you, just as it is with Nebraska and Kansas, the feds don’t control everything a state does internally. One world government doesn’t mean total control over nation states as to their internal affairs. It should mean sensible control over international matters vested by the nation states.

    Albert Einstein was for one world government. And, he certainly was not a man reputationed with lack of intellect.

    In final conclusion: Problems in general for humankind will not be solved until sovereignty rises above the aforementioned sphere of influence .The Bilderberger group the Warburgs, the Trilateral Commission, the Rockefellers ,shadowy Masonic influences, the Council on Foreign relations , Bohemian Grove realm of evil is world wide. The proletarian masses need rise up and defeat this racist, white supremist, radical Zionist evil and overthrow the satanic curse that is free market capitalism.

    1 Lev25:10, Lev25:28, Lev27:17, Nu36:4, Eze46:17

  71. @donald dailey

    i think the pigs (see Animal Farm) might be one step ahead of you….

  72. Wow, so many comments. I’ve spent three days, in my spare time, reading through this discussion because I wanted to make an educated and truly useful comment. With the exception of a few, this discussion is decent.

    I think (I know, famous last words) that our current problems are really the end-game of an economic system that steals wealth from the people, at all rungs of society, and places it in the hands of a few bankers. Now before you start thinking I’m just a paranoid freak think of this…

    Woodrow Wilson, some time after passing the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 had this to say about it.

    “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world – no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”

    Another credible source, Congressman Louis T. McFadden, Former Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency, had this to say about what we had done.

    “… we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks … This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of the United States… Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers…

    “The Federal Reserve (Banks) are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the International Bankers.

    “Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the Fed. The Fed has cheated the Government of the United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the Nation’s debt… The wealth of these United States and the working capital have been taken away from them and has either been locked in the vaults of certain banks and the great corporations or exported to foreign countries for the benefit of foreign customers of these banks and corporations. So far as the people of the United States are concerned, the cupboard is bare.

    “When the Federal Reserve Act was passed, the people of these United States did not perceive that a world banking system was being set up here.

    A super-state controlled by international bankers and industrialists… acting together to enslave the world… Every effort has been made by the Fed to conceal its powers but the truth is — the Fed has usurped the government.”

    Furthermore we are led to believe our problems are all left vs. right, republican vs. democrat, in short, neighbor vs. neighbor. This just isn’t the case. Our politicians have most certainly been usurped by powerful bankers who want desperately to control the wealth of every nation.

    If you still think I’m paranoid and just a conspiracy theorist answer this for me. Why is it that even though congress (at one time the people) have the power to issue our currency and control our wealth, instead borrows money from a private institution to pay it back at interest? This is why we have been conditioned over 3 generations (at the very least) to believe debt is good and freedom is what we own.

    Debt is the biggest scam the world has ever known. I’m not religious but I know that even Jesus warned us of the “Money Changers”, he overturned their tables in the Temple and kicked them out because they are the most corrupt people on the planet. They are the only ones this peaceful man became violent with (at least according to the bible).

    So, before you lay out some argument about why socialism or capitalism is better than the other, think about why it doesn’t matter because we live under neither and haven’t for a long time now.

  73. Guy, first of all you need to leasrn to spell correctly, then you should get your factsd straight, so not to show your own stupidity. However saying that, you will see in the near future, you and we all will receive exactly what you wanted from this administration; Socialism and poverty. That is what entitlement gets you. You should look at the history of socialism and what it has done for their people before you so ignorantly speak out. Even a fool seems to be wise when he is quiet. You may want to practice that , guy.

  74. Dave, I totally agree with you. The answer is not socialism howeever, it is taking our country back and shutting the Fed down and then the IRS. Only the “People” can do that and make it happen. You see, I still believe in America and am a prtriot. I believe “WE the People” can make a difference. Let the Bankers rule the other nations, but let them know you can not rule us, we rule ourselves and we will fight and die for our Freedoms.
    That was a very good and informative article Dave and right on que. Tahnks

  75. Great article! Also, I’d agree that the above posters were quite well spoken compared to most MSM news article comments.

    @Dave Wagner –> the most dead on poster on this page so far IMHO. I was going to say something about the evils of the Fed but you have already done it for me. Does it make any sense for the government to borrow our money from a private institute of bankers and then have to pay it back at interest? Most people wouldn’t think so…but we do! And this nation will be perpetually in debt as long as we have this Fed system where our money is based on debt.

    @KRK –> Very true! Our nation was born on the principle of fighting tyranny. It was not only our right, it was our duty to break the bonds of tyrannical England. Now that our Federal Government has grown out of control, perhaps it is the duty of the states now to secede (a sacred right meant to keep the federal government in check).

    @Tyrone Paige –> very good points. Democracies are tyranny of the majority where the individual has little rights. “Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives, as they have been violent in their deaths.” We are a constitutional republic based on laws that are meant to protect our natural liberty and rights. Our rights are inalienable, and it is the government’s job to protect them.

    @Mark –> “im 25 and i know lots of people my age who are very fiscally conservative and are only liberal regarding social policy.” I agree wtih Mark. I’m 27 and I’m socially liberal and fiscally conservative too (ie. libertarian, or classically liberal, or paleo-conservative, whatever label you want). Most people our generation I feel agree the same way, they just don’t think they are libertarian because that’s been a taboo word the past several decades.

    Our founding fathers were mostly libertarian type thinkers, believers in natural law, and believed that men should live life however they want as long as they don’t take away the rights of others. Sadly, we have tended more into socialism/fascism in these current times and it’s up to libertarians to save us once more.

  76. Even if Churchill had said that, in his youth liberal certainly didn’t mean socialist.

  77. “1. @orville: I didnt hear ANYONE predict this economic crash. Neither left nor right nor center.”

    Then you clearly haven’t been listening to Thomas Woods, Jr., U.S. Congressman Ron Paul, Economist Peter Schiff, all of whom are major economists and predicted the crash years in advance. Just watch most videos on YouTube with them.

    2. One thing socialism definitely is not: Big bloated “government programs” that are funded by redistribution of wealth after it is gained in the private sector.”

    B.S. That’s exactly what socialism is because big bloated governments funded by redistribution of wealth is the exact opposite of free-market capitalism.

    “3. The country would’ve gone down the tubes long ago had the people not reined in “free enterprise”, industry, and finance. However, those socialist controls have been eroded since Reagan, and we are now headed down as a consequence. ”

    Reagan’s so-called Revolution was cancelled a long time ago by his heir, Bush I and the “compassionate conservatives” who were opposed to free-market capitalism.

    “1. What Donnie means is that the emerging people’s societies in Latin America are closing their doors to exploitation by people like his family — foreigners taking a huge cut of the resources and labor.”

    And instead allowing parasites like Hugo Chavez to feed off of the people’s labor.

    “2. What an insult to real socialists!!! I don’t know any socialist who is unemployed and asking for handout; I myself work two jobs.”

    Most socialists are the ones living off your taxes in inneficient bureaucracies. There’s a reason why the biggest socialist have often been university professors and it’s because most of them are leaches. If you yourself work two jobs though, then you of all people should learn that NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE.

    “It means organizing society to benefit the masses, average working people and creating living wage jobs.”

    That can only come from economic calculation between wasteful and productive use of resources, which in turn can only come from the free-market order of allowing people to privately own goods and services and produce and trade what they want. Commerce is the only why to have calculation.

    “It means free high quality health care from cradle to grave, free education to fill those jobs and many more, and a reduction in work hours due to full employment.”

    The desire for free anything is what leads to imperialism and genocide. Nazi Germany after all had plenty of free education and even old age pensions, etc. But rather than using the economic means of gaining wealth through production and trade, they instead just stole it from their millions of victims.

    “Capitalism always has booms followed by busts and each time this happens”

    Booms and busts are only a few centuries old, Commerce and private property predate them by centuries.

    “3. A socialist would let the banks fail rather than spending all this money trying to rescue capitalism as Obama is doing.”

    Uh, no a socialist would probably continue funding them just like socialist are all about the continued funding of most “free” schools, hospitals, etc, no matter how wasteful. After a socialist can’t tell what’s wasteful and what’s not because in socialism there is no bankruptcy, meaning no profit or loss, thus no economic calculation. The Austrian economist Ludwig Von Mises noted this almost a century ago and it still stands to this day. Bankruptcies though a perfectly good part of a capitalist order since they flush out wasteful activities.”

    “Also, a socialist would raise the marginal tax rate to significantly higher than 52% for the richest Americans. So, we would probably be running a surplus with a socialist, not a deficit.”

    Not for long. Eventually the socialist plans would call for more and more funding due to constant pressure from public-sector employees (whom are almost always lobbying for more funding, less accountabililty, etc.) until the govt. would have to run a deficit. It’s true that many European-style socialist states don’t have huge deficiets, but that’s largely because they don’t huge military empires to look after the rest of the world from cradle-to-grave like the U.S. does. with billions in regime change, foreign aid like the U.S. does. Sweden for instance kept out of both World Wars.

    “Want to send the world’s economic woes packing .Rid the world of the economic curse we call free market capitalism. Let every man women and child on the face of the earth have access to and share the same bank account-meaning every man woman and child on the face of the earth essentially has all the money in the world.”

    In other words, a return to tribal warfare and genocide where it’s everyone for themself (since that would be “exploitation” to say that people should produce things, exchange them, and respect other’s individual property).

    “Why don’t Nebraska and Kansas ever go to war against each other because of a border dispute or whatnot? The ever so obvious reason is that it is because the sovereignty goes beyond the level of interaction or shall we term it the sphere of influence. The dispute would be settled at the federal level. ”

    Actually it’s because both states have treaties and engage in commerce with one another, which goes together with peace.

    “Problems in general for humankind will not be solved until sovereignty rises above the aforementioned sphere of influence .The Bilderberger group the Warburgs, the Trilateral Commission, the Rockefellers ,shadowy Masonic influences, the Council on Foreign relations , Bohemian Grove realm of evil is world wide. The proletarian masses need rise up and defeat this racist, white supremist, radical Zionist evil and overthrow the satanic curse that is free market capitalism.”

    Are you that uneducated and ignorant. All of those groups that you listed are themselves supporters of One World Government (itself considered a satanic thing by fundamentalists).

    In summation, many of these comments appear to be just the same ignorant B.S. supported by all warlords throughout human history, that being that “that tribe has that property and wealth and we want it but rather than producing and trading something that they value and trading them for it, we’ll just raid their camp and take what we want. We’ll have “free” health-care and “free” education at the expense of a whole lotta blood. IT IS COMMERCE THAT IS THE PRICE THAT WE PAY FOR CIVILIZATION, NOT TAXES.

    And for those of you who think that there is something satanic about capitalism, I implore you to read the freakin Ten Commandments. You can’t get more capitalistic that “Thou Shall Not Steal” and “Thou Shall Not Covet Thy Neigbor’s Goods”. Even Jesus said “Follow God’s Commandments First” before he mentioned about rich guys having a hard time getting into heaven.

  78. <3 American Socialism

  79. I agree with Dave W. ,This left vs. right ,socialism vs. capitalism game is a smoke screen to keep your attention off of the truth.All the things in Dave’s post can by verified with a little research.I at one time or another have been a member of both parties,NO MORE….Our officials need to see that more of us know about this monopoly of power in so few hands…………

  80. Republicans and Democrats. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other! Different sides of the same coin! If you think Obama or his policies are Socialist, then you don’t know what Socialism is.

  81. Who is John Galt?

  82. It’s not an Obama deficit! It’s BUSH’S DEFICIT!

  83. @guy d, who was responsible for the demise of Fanie and Freddie. The Democrats. There were plenty of Republicans that warned of what was going to happen but since all the Dems were receiving contributions from these entities why would they oppose.

  84. @Albatross
    Busch deficit. What do you think the big “O” is doing. Open your eyes!!!! Get over the Busch derangement syndrome.

  85. Daughter #2 complained that all her friends had their tuition and expenses covered by their parents; they only worked at Bennigan’s for extra spending money, while SHE had to Work to Live and Pay Bills/exist, right?
    I asked, “and how are they doing” in terms of grades/success….
    “C’s” usually – - – while she was Dean’s List…..
    Somehow I learned, when you don’t actually work for it, you don’t appreciate, nor do you work nearly as hard. It’s true. Very!
    She went on to get her Masters. The youngest daughter went a pretty similar route, with student loans and WORK, summa cum with a double major: history and Latin – - a few years with the Peace Corps, teaching and International Development…..
    If they don’t work for it, they don’t exert themselves quite the same way, okay?
    And, to that dingdong named Guy…. pathetic!

  86. Keith is right — most of you have no idea what socialism is. And this is not surprising, because the original idea has been covered up with an enormous heap of rubbish. It must be a very powerful idea to attract such attention!

    Just for starters: Socialism, original idea, is “The ownership or control of the means of production by the workers or the community.” Nothing to do with big government, the secret police, or dirigisme. Just people taking care of their own business instead of waiting for elites to do it for them.

    As the guy said, “Everything you know is wrong.” I imagine you like it that way, though.

  87. So much hyperbole and so little reason. The key difference between socialism and a laissez faire, free market economy is the view of the role of the state and the individual in these systems. In the socialist world, the state tries to make policy that increases the well-being of “the people”, and in many cases that goal will be furthered by restricting the rights of individuals. The success of “society” is valued more than the success of the individual. Most importantly, it believes that human nature is fundamentally not supportive of building an effective society and the the state is required to force people to act in a certain way and to in fact believe in a certain way. The key here is the coercive power of the state by law. The U.S. federal govt was intentionally formed to establish the rights of the individual as paramount and trusted the “running of the country” to states to some degree, but in the main largely entrusted it to individuals who might choose to act collectively for their own greater good, but would not be compelled to do so by law. Compare this with the design of the French government or Swedish government (btw, they are having huge productivity and innovation problems in their economy so be careful lauding the Swedes).

    Pure socialism/communism means collective control of the means of production which necessarily falls to the state, despite the idealized statements of one the posters to this blog, and as such socialism will always have a very strong state with lots of rules governing the lives of individuals. After all, it has to codify all “work” and “pay” and allocate all “property” via rules based on some notion of fair play with regards to the equities involved. It then needs to enforce these rules and this is where the trouble lies. Every government with a strong state becomes corrupt and abusive. Every centrally controlled economy is a mess and filled with bribery and theft large and small. It simply doesn’t work, it doesn’t even come close. All the economies that call themselves socialist or communist fund almost all their economic growth via businesses (such as Sweden’s), started by individuals in many cases, that participate in a global market economy, not by distributing their goods and services via a central planning model.

    There is no evidence that socialism or communism is a workable economic model. And for those “Sweden lovers” out there, read this article for a dose of reality.

  88. Just a couple of simple statements……..


    Ever-failing government regulation.

    …and a quote from a very intelligent man

    “Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities.”
    Thomas Jefferson
    First Inaugural Address
    In the Washington, D.C.
    Wednesday, March 4, 1801

  89. The socialist school of thought that believes that government and vanguardist “revolutionary” tactics can bring us closer to Liberty (and consequently, Equality) has hot had much successful historic basis.

    The Paris Commune, Ukraine and Makhno, Spain 1936, May 1968 in Paris, the Zapatistas in Chiapas, Mexico; THESE are examples of socialism that should be looked at as the socialism of the people.

    Capitalism forces us to compete for our bare necessities. Socialism allows us to decide for ourselves what happens with the things we create.

    Fire your boss.

    Humanity won’t be happy until the last capitalist is hung with the guts of the last bureaucrat.

  90. I guess authorizing wiretaps on US citizens in the US and censoring the internet is socialism too. It’s nice to know the government and corps will have control over our food and water and money. And I suppose we’ll adjust to socialist cars. Gotta take what you can get but keep opinions to yourself or else.

  91. Where were you when Bush turned the surplus into a deficit?

  92. I thought that your post was very well thought out, and presented very good Ideas. I look forward to reading more of your postings in the future.

  93. Go to prison……..THATS a socialistic ‘state’….

    LOL……… idiots that voted for this clown OBAMA…(from hatred of Bush, for love of black people, to extiguish this illusion of guilt that you have been told from your teachers to have, from pure fear of the blacks or to show everyone around you that youre one of the ‘good’ Whites…whatever it was that was going through your head at the time that you marched up top the ballot box with your chest thrusted out, proud to have been one of the first Whites to absolve yourself from the stain of being refered to as a racist, bigot or evil)…..have no idea as to what you have created….

    Your fawning and slobbering over this man is showing just how weak you are as a man…or, if your a White woman, just how you have fallen into line with this ‘New America’ tolerance and diversity bullshit…..(in my opinion, you make a good White Bitch….atleast THATS how they refer to you to their home-boys)…..

    Thats the life style you have chosen….

    and when the clock strikes… will be made to live your choice out the rest of your days on this earth…..

    You will be sanctioned by us….the American-Americans…..

    You obama voters, supporters…and slobberers will get exactly whats coming to you….and rightly deserved…

    You wanted ‘change’??………….Youre about to get it……..

  94. [quote from zack] Where were you when Bush turned the surplus into a deficit?

    Where were you when Clinton STOLE our money to give to people that will continue to hate us no matter what the hell we do??……..

    OH…… were still in a college dorm or still living at Mommy and Daddys house in the basement??…..hell, you were probably still in high school at the time……..

    Hey………fool??……….We were fighting people that attacked us in 2001…….or did you forget, fool?………

    It takes money and resources to fight the enemy, fool…..what did you want us to do, throw rocks and hang birds in their direction??…maybe call them derogatory names??….

    Youre a fool…… lack any type of intelligence to see beyond 3 feet in front of you…..

    Its people like you that go to the voting booth, steered by your peers, your teachers and your very own fear…..and vote strictly because you have been ‘educated’ into believing something that is false…….

    Youre an idiot in the third degree and a fool in the first………

    People like you CAUSE problems….youre a slave to your own idiocy…..

    And you will be one until the day comes when you finally take you celestial dirt-nap…..

    Youre abject-conformity is sickening……..and that will be your downfall……..

    Youre not a ‘man’ in the sense….youre just a male that can be contorted and twisted to appease the masses……..You will allow others to mold you into a ‘perfect citizen’ in the eyes of everyone around you…

    You have chosen your master……..
    Youre a coward in the worst way…….

    And your ‘reward’ will be abundant…….fool…..

  95. Just a reminder………all these people who want socialism…….

    Youll hate it after youve been in your ‘utopian’ dream for a while….

    Your best bet is to, instead of blaming it on Bush like you always do… to grab a mossberg shotgun, load it with .00 buck…….sit on a couch, put the barrel in your mouth……and pull the trigger with your toe…..and dont worry about the mess…we’ll clean it with fire….

    I’ll pay for the four letters on the top of your stone that read “FOOL”…….

    Then we’ll all know from that day on that you were a giddy obama drool…….

    I realize that you will hate it because youre not able to approach obama or his counterparts on all-fours, wide-eyed and slobbering….but have no fear, fool….I’ll make sure they lay you on your stomach in your dirt-cell….

  96. Capitalism & Socialism: Why we need both and neither

    We have to have a mixture of Capitalism and Socialism until we’ve acquired enough technology to create self-sufficient living models so people can lessen their dependence on government AND corporations both. Capitalism
    and Socialism are two sides of the same coin. Capitalism leaves people dependent on an employer, employee, a socially suffocating monetary system and, by its own practitioners admissions, pits the individual against the individual. Under Capitalism, it is in an individuals self-interest to see their economic competitor fail. When Capitalists say Capitalism is “natural” I take them at their word. As natural as in
    the jungle it is in the self-interest for a predator to triumph over
    its prey. In fact, Capitalism is the food chain, the law of survival in its most developed expression but still, at its heart, a zero sum game. Some win, some lose. Too bad. Is that what we want? Socialism leaves the individual dependent on the State and the State is dependent on and slowly bleeds dry industry. Both have their flaws and both have their

    Developing alternative technologies and not being afraid to explore the advances in cloning will bring us closer to a self sufficient society. The Democrats want that kind of research more than the Republicans do…The Republicans only pay lip-service to alternative energy and science.
    They are full of it and will never explore or do anything new in these areas. They want to keep us stuck in a Capitalistic system where the individual who is unable to innovate in the marketplace is eternally the wage slave of big corporations. The world can do better than that!

    The Dems and Progressives will mandate exploration and development of these areas and THAT will bring us closer to a truly self-sufficient society. The less people must work for others to support themselves, the less social
    discontent there will be. And the corollary of that is (which die-hard capitalists might approve of), the more self-sufficient and independent technology enables people to become for their basic subsistence, the less they will rely on your (other people’s) tax money to survive. So here’s a shocker: if you want LESS taxes in the future, vote for a tree hugging liberal. Their advocacy of eco-friendly and sustainable living
    models will eventually bring your taxes down. Why would you want to fight that? I advocate what can best be described as a
    “self-sufficient” socialism that uses technology, the products of
    capitalism, to provide sustainable living models to humanity and thus eventually free up people from the dependence on each other.

    But it has never been entirely about socialism…It’s about combining the mutually flawed systems of Capitalism and Socialism until the technology and advancements are sufficient enough to free humanity from the dependent nature’s of both.

    You, sir, need to either update your argument or convert.

  97. I’d also like to remind Grafted Devil that the military itself IS a socialistic program! It runs on tax payer money. It’s members daily living necessities are provided by tax payer money. Their shelter, their clothes, their training and every morsel of food that goes into their hypocritical mouths is funded by a socialistic program.

  98. Eh old man, lets hope your retirement savings are hedged against national ruin, no?

    When it all falls down your socialist son and his age cohort will still have their health and youthful vigor, which will allow them to make their way in the world that comes.

    But you? You “old fogeys”?

    The young folk will remember every insult, and turn it back upon you tenfold: who will clothe you and feed you in your infirmities? Who will defend you against muggers, thieves and other dangers?

    Why will they do it, if you can’t pay?

    If you think you can pay, think again — what are you planning to pay with? Our ever-more debased currency? Underwater real estate holdings? The ever-shrinking contents of your 401ks?

    Get real! Even if you think you’re doing ok now, do you think in your infirmity you’ll be negotiating from a position of strength?

    If you can’t pay up, well, tough luck old man! Get a job! If in that world you can’t make your own way, at least be so polite as to stay out of mine.

  99. As there is much discussion on Socialism – and posts stating “no understanding of socialism” here is some “education” to those stating people don’t know what socialism is:

    “social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.” – Encyclopedia Brittanica

    Because “social control” may be interpreted in widely diverging ways, socialism ranges from statist to libertarian, from Marxist to liberal. The term was first used to describe the doctrines of Charles Fourier, Henri de Saint-Simon, and Robert Owen, who emphasized noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all (utopian socialism). Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, seeing socialism as a transition state between capitalism and communism, appropriated what they found useful in socialist movements to develop their “scientific socialism.” In the 20th century, the Soviet Union was the principal model of strictly centralized socialism, while Sweden and Denmark were well-known for their noncommunist socialism. See also collectivism, communitarianism, social democracy.

    So for those who try and confuse the argument by stating “you do not understand socialism, or have the wrong interpretation of socialism – which definition or “flavor” of socialism are you operating under? If you really examine what is taking place you will see that the form of socialism this is NOT, is Utopic Socialism – so what’s left? all flavors of socialism which have and are failing. Do we really want the U.S. modeled after France, Denmark & Sweeden (where you can legally kill young & old alike), or the former Soviet Union?

    So who really does not understand socialism – those who have experienced it before and resist it because of the harm it causes, or those who have read “flowery utopic” definition & accounts but avoid the reality of history! (a history longer than a 4-8 year U.S. presidential term). Ooooooops your naivete is showing!

    You can simply not read press accounts, nor listen to propaganda from socialists in power for the key aspect of socialism is misleading the public to gain social control. – Hmmmmm can anyone say “lying”?.

  100. “young ones shrug”

    Might bear you remembering, boy, we taught you everything you know, not everything WE know.
    When the hard time REALLY hit and you’re begging The One for money, we’ll still be making things and surviving. We also have guns so will be keeping what we make.
    And we’ll STILL be telling you little idiots “Tough luck, get a job”.
    Enjoy your manpurse full of cash while you can.
    Atlas Shrugs Soon

  101. All the debt will go away when we are part of the New World order…right?

    One global currency….

    the old one won’t matter, everything will be rainbows and candy canes!

    I do love a good candy cane…. Perhaps you should all wake up and smell the shit pile.

    Don’t get distracted by all the little things, look at the whole picture.

    Yes I just referred to the economy as a little thing, as compared to all the other things that are going on, our floundering dollar is only part of the great socialist plan for us.

    Take a look at all the bills going through the house… no seriously look at them and then reply to this. Don’t be an idiot and just reply because I hurt your vagina when I kicked it. Do some research and make an educated decision.

    “The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency.”
    Vladimir Lenin

  102. It seems to me that socialism, communism, and other collectivizing schemes are simple deceptions. They are aimed at causing people to confuse their impulse to virtue with an impulse to the collective and to internalize the collective itself as a value, with obedience to it as the prime virtue. Philosophical prestidigitation, really.

    Nice post Mr. Bologna. Personal, topical, and to the point.

  103. A fascinating read! And the responses as well. I think it mirrors what a lot of us parents are going through.

    I raised my own children to be socially conscious and to care about those in need. But, I never dreamed they would grow up with such contempt for our very own U.S. Constitution. Which is, by and large, a quite Conservative document. (When compared to French Socilaism, anyway.)

    My opinion is that what we are reaping is the natural harvest for the children of the children of the sixties. Back when we wanted “free love” and spouted slogans like “distrust authority” we planted the seeds of cynicism. For better or worse…. we now harvest their fruit.

  104. This was obvious before it began. Obama is a simple and now fully powered Marxis or secret Muslim, or non- American National who has an agenda that was written out for him at least 5 or so years ago. Oh Well………. Thanks for the opinion, but we’ve heard it all before and it doesn’t stop the Groopie like Democrats in Congress from flocking the laurals on his brow.

  105. Poor, Dear! Richie Rich might not be living in his own penthouse by 35.

    All my life I’ve heard people say, ” Socialism sounds great, but it doesn’t work because people are naturally greedy and self-serving.”

    Now it appears the same thing is true of capitalism.

    I don’t particularly want to live in a socialist state. I don’t think there is any danger of that. The facts show that there has certainly been a redistribution of wealth over the last few years, from the sinking middle class to the top.

  106. Linking you in my blog today:

    Hope you don’t mind…

    Think I’ll blogroll you too!!

  107. How can it be socialism when the rich own everything? How can you blame Obama when overspending began with Reagan, and grew from there, until now, the point where the collapse of the dollar is a mathematically certain. As for Obama, I see no difference between Bush and him. We’re still in the Middle-East, the rich are still getting more tax breaks (recent budget included tax breaks for couples who inherit $5 million (no estate tax), illegal aliens are still working everywhere for peon wages, and the stupid bail outs of Bush continue.

  108. I suggest you all look at the big picture and READ Meltdown by Thomas Woods. It is illuminating and well written, especially for the lot of us with no formal economics training. It certainly confirms my skepticism toward the current (and past) administration’s economic “cures” of printing money, bailing out private banks and industries and flooding the market with “free” money via low/no interest rates, all the while generating astronomical taxpayer-funded debt. We are really in for it.

  109. If you think what Obama is doing is socialism, you are gravely mistaken. Socialism for the rich maybe what with the bank bailouts…where’s my socialism? An honest hard-working able-bodied tax paying citizen who can’t find work! I have been driving myself crazy working to find work!! Meanwhile the banks line up at the trough of the bailout money and take what they want!!! You call that socialism!? Do you know what socialism is? Socialism is about equality…not making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Capitalism already does a fine job at that. As long as we have a two-party system in this country which are both run by corporate interests, we will never see equality or “socialism” (the big dirty word to the ignorant). We will only see the rich getting whatever it is they want and continuing to run our government…whether it’s a democrat or republican that’s in office.

  110. The Lie of Socialism

    Plymouth Colony Dec 1620 Mayflower stops unloads its passengers & their belongings. Many of the colonists die in that first winter of 1621.

    Spring 1621 – Friendly Native Americans teach colonists how to raise crops in the North American climate.

    Harvest of 1621 – colonists did enjoy a bountiful feast of Thanksgiving. HOWEVER there was only enough food for ONE community feast. The rest of that second winter saw famine and death.

    Harvest 1622 – followed the same pattern: an autumn feast followed by winter starvation and death in 1623.

    Wm Bradford – the 2nd Gov.of Plymouth Colony then took a long hard look at what was wrong with the social organization of the colony. It was basically a socialistic community.

    The rules of the Colony in Bradford’s words were:
    “all profits and benefits that are got by trade, traffic, working, fishing, or any other means ” were to be placed in a common pantry. That was how the colony’s larders were to be filled.

    How were these common goods to be used? The community law was ‘all such persons as are of this colony are to have their meat, drink, apparel, and all provisions out of the common stock”.


    But the founders of Plymouth Colony had not taken HUMAN NATURE into account when drafting these rules.

    First the strong men of the colony stopped working. They saw that the sweat of their brow was the mainstay of the community – but all they gained for all THEIR labor was an EQUAL share of goods, whose production LARGELY depended on THEM.

    They were the town mules. So they stopped working.

    Second. This economic system ( which is what socialism IS – it is an ECONOMIC system whose opposite is CAPITALISM) bred a growing number of PARASITES: people who COULD work but refused to citing illness, age, gender.

    Third: this system led to THIEVERY. At nite neighbors would sneak into the gardens of the more industrial colonists and steal their vegetables. Soon NO ONE was working. Is it any wonder the colony experienced famine.

    So what changes did Gov Bradford make?

    In 1623 He REWROTE the rules: switching from a society based on COMMON property to one based on INDIVIDUAL property.

    He parceled out land to families, told each family they were responsible for growing their own food and that they could do with the surplus as they pleased. They could eat some, and save the rest for the next seasons seed OR trade it for money or goods. IT WAS THEIR CHOICE!

    He put an end to socialism in Plymouth Colony.

    What happened then? Did the famines of the two previous years recur? Not at all.

    In the autumn of 1623 the harvest was followed by a day of Thanksgiving but UNLIKE the previous two years, the colonists did NOT starve during the winter that followed.

    This same pattern of learning about the PARALYZING realilities of socialism also occurred in other American colonies.

    St Paul in his second letter to the Thessalonians, third chapter says ” if any would not work NEITHER should he eat’.

    Their is also a karmic / spiritual law that says ” everything MUST be paid for in the true coin” i.e ” if any would not work NEITHER should he eat”.

    ANYTIME a society puts the RIGHTS OF ITS INDIVIDUALS at jeopardy with laws that TAKE AWAY their LIBERTY, PROPERTY, and FREE SPEECH without the DUE PROCESS of LAWS BASED ON JUSTICE – it is a sign of a spiritually immature society doomed to failure.

    Aristotle, 4th century BC Greek philosopher – had very serious doubts about democracy as an ideal state.Perhaps because he too had insight into greed and human nature.

    When people in a democratic society learn that they can take the property of others by voting for political leaders who gain their power by catering to the greed of the masses – he believed the society was doomed to failure.

    At the end of the day no one should look for the perfect society – whether its foundations are one of social, economic or religious values but we CAN and MUST strive for the best possible society: and that is the one our Founding Fathers created.

  111. After reading so many comments I would like to suggest that everyone spend $12.00 on or your favorate book store, and purchase “The 5000 year leap” It will explain (in easy to read terms) what our founding fathers iintended when they formed this country’s constitution, wrote the Fedralist Papers, etc. How the basis for our laws was formed.
    The arguments I’m reading are incredibly distorted and speaks volumes about why Obama was elected with his background never considered as being important to how he would govern. It was all there in plain sight!. He never explained (deliberately) what he meant by “CHANGE” and each of you imagined it meant something dfferent than he intended. We are now seeing clearly, pay close attention what he is saying to the graduates!

  112. People the idea of putting a cap on someone’s salary is ridiculous, how can our economy grow when we start putting up boundaries that stop growth? Imagine this, you start off with a dream to own your own business, and you get off to a successful start. People start noticing you, your on the radio, you hear your name on tv, next thing you know you’rea huge successful business and you’ve got a lot of money. But know suddenly the government feels like taxing you. Why would we do this to people? It makes no sense! We encourage growth, yet we put a stopper on it when it gets to be too big? It’s ridiculous!

  113. “I didnt hear ANYONE predict this economic crash. Neither left nor right nor center.” Then you weren’t listening in the write places. On the Counterpunch website, many were, though Mike Whitney the most forcefully and accurately.

    You can also find good information there about Winston Churchill (it’s bizarre that anybody would want to support their opinion with a quite from him)

    July 19, 2003
    History Forgave Churchill
    Why Not Blair and Bush?

    By MICKEY Z.

    On July 17, 2003, U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair addressed a joint meeting of the U.S. House and Senate. The subject of WMD, of course, was on the front burner.

    “If we are wrong, then we will have destroyed a threat that was at its least responsible for inhuman carnage and suffering,” Blair said. “I am confident history will forgive.”

    Blair’s confidence is justified. History has forgiven U.K. leaders for plenty. How else, for example, could U.S. News and World Report have dubbed Winston Churchill “The Last Hero” in a 2000 cover story? In that article, Churchill was said to believe in “liberty, the rule of law, and the rights of the individual.”

    As Sir Winston himself declared: “History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.”

    This is precisely why so few of us ever discuss Churchill as a war criminal or racist. In 1910, in the capacity of Home Secretary, he put forth a proposal to sterilize roughly 100,000 “mental degenerates” and dispatch several thousand others to state-run labor camps. These actions were to take place in the name of saving the British race from inevitable decline as its inferior members bred.

    History has forgiven Churchill for his role in the Allied invasion of the Soviet Union in 1917. England’s Minister for War and Air during the time, Churchill described the mission as seeking to “strangle at its birth” the Bolshevik state. In 1929, he wrote: “Were [the Allies] at war with Soviet Russia? Certainly not; but they shot Soviet Russians at sight. They stood as invaders on Russian soil. They armed the enemies of the Soviet Government. They blockaded its ports, and sunk its battleships. They earnestly desired and schemed its downfall.”

    Two years later, Churchill was secretary of state at the war office when the Royal Air Force asked him for permission to use chemical weapons against “recalcitrant Arabs” as an experiment. Winston promptly consented (Yes, Churchill’s gassing of Kurds pre-dated Hussein’s by nearly 70 years).

    “I am strongly in favor of using poisoned gas against uncivilized tribes,” he explained, a policy he espoused yet again in July 1944 when he asked his chiefs of staff to consider using poison gas on the Germans “or any other method of warfare we have hitherto refrained from using.” Unlike in 1919, his proposal was denied…not that history would not have forgiven him anyway.

    In language later appropriated by the Israelis, Winston Churchill had this to say about the Palestinians in 1937: “I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.”

    When not scheming a Bolshevik downfall, gassing the uncivilized, or comparing Palestinians to dogs, Churchill found time to write soulmate Benito Mussolini. In January 1927, Sir Winston gushed to Il Duce, “if I had been an Italian, I am sure I would have been entirely with you from the beginning to the end of your victorious struggle against the bestial appetites and passions of Leninism.” Even after the advent of WWII, Churchill found room in his heart for the Italian dictator, explaining to Parliament in 1940:”I do not deny that he is a very great man but he became a criminal when he attacked England.”

    Mussolini’s criminality aside, Churchill certainly took note of Axis tactics…cavalierly observing that “everyone” was bombing civilians. “It’s simply a question of fashion,” he explained, “similar to that of whether short or long dresses are in.”

    Sir Winston must have been a slave to fashion because he soon ordered a fire-bombing raid on Hamburg in July 1943 that killed at least 48,000 civilians, after which he enlisted the aid of British scientists to cook up “a new kind of weather” for larger German city.

    In his wartime memoirs, Winston Churchill forgave himself for the countless civilians slaughtered in Dresden. “We made a heavy raid in the latter month on Dresden,” he wrote benignly, “then a centre of communication of Germany’s Eastern Front.”

    Surely the Nazis were hiding WMD there, right?

    Mickey Z. is the author of The Murdering of My Years: Artists and Activists Making Ends Meet and an editor at Wide Angle. He can be reached at:

  114. “Educated Citizen” you remind me of the moron who thought that he was a genius.

    You are educated, you are conditioned. You are a true believer. A whiner about enemy victories.

    You are arrogant because you are ignorant. Are you even a HS graduate.

    By the world’s measure I am educated: Phd, MS and 2 BS. You dont have a BS but you can sure BS.

  115. Do You Want to Resist Obama? Don’t call on CONservatives

    CON servatives are not very bright people. Its as if God realized that there should be some sort of resistance to communism and black racism of the “Reverend Wright” genre and then had a brain fart. To “lead” the resistance against those twin evils that threaten to absolutely turn us into doting boot-licking, slaves…God gave us CONservatives.

    Who and what are CONservatives?
    First of all they are losers. For the past 50 years they “resisted” the victorious march to victory of American Marxism and NEVER won one battle. They never learn from their battles either. They refuse to ask or answer the question:”Why do we always lose.”

    The dogmatically use the same conservative methodology that lost this nation its freedom. For decades I read their written disarrhea (sp?) and later closely observed conservative activities. I wanted to understand why they never, ever, won.

    What was the essence of conservative struggle against evil?
    Listing and whining about enemy victories,and the left was always winning. Yet the left has always been pregnany with fanatical idiots like Al Frankin, so they equally matched CONservative in brains.

    The difference was in fanaticism. CONservative do not exhibit fanaticism because they have no ideology. They are media constructs, carefully crafted by the media as: “The exact type of enemy incapable of offering no competent resistance.”

    Conservatives compound their constant litany of leftist victories and warning of the future with a complete ignorance that is eclipsed only by their cowardice. They have no intelligentsia and they are terribly confused. They know the enemy is wrong and bad, but they follow the enemy rules of war? Why? They simply cannot stand to be called names.

    Yes, conservative fools never have solutions and they know nothing about political organizing, public pressure groups or working for the best interests of freedom. Instead they exhibit a child-like confidence in the tattered, disproven and stupid “resistence” ideas which history has proven to be totally bankrupt. They continue writing letters, phoning criminal legislators, signing petitions and once in a blue moon lining up with silly signs. Thats it !

    There is only one thing more that conservatives do, the main thing actually, they pony up contributions to pay the salaries of writers who do more good for the left, than they do for the right. All they write about are leftist victories.

    That reminds me of another thing. Conservative pride themselves in being too cowardly to be called “right wing extremists,” or “racists”, for example they are very careful to never criticize any racist activities of the black leadership of leftist groups . They don’t want to be name called or hurt by sinister blacks. “poor babies.”

    CONservatives are always searching for carnal leftist blacks, like colon powell, who will go along with them publicly, but sabotage them behind the scenes? Why? They desperately voice to need for “black inclusion” black leadership and just love a black telling them what to do.

    Intelligent people have only contempt for CONservatives, their ignorance, cowardice and extreme fear of blacks which they demonstrate by constant kow towing.CONservatives are political lickspittles wailing about the country they do not love enough to fight for, in the streets.

    Any person who is confident enough and intelligent enough to not care whether he is called right wing extremist or racist as he fights for justice, is a rare and admirable creature.

    I am a veteran.

  116. Ah, the whimsy of unfettered capitalism. “Mine! MINE!!” it cries…

  117. What hatred I’ve seen on this page! The insults people have exchanged here are almost nauseating!

  118. An excellent blog, sir. I am left only to laugh at the poor, pathetic little ones that continue to pine for the wonders of utopia (using whatever definition of “socialism” suits them). They sing the praises of “free” health care (read: rationed) and “free” education, all the while missing the forrest for the trees by refusing to acknowledge the ridiculous tax rates to which they are subjected. They are the definition of the “free lunch” crowd. And those that somehow interpret the Scandanavian model as superior are the most amusing of all. The only explanation for this is that they haven’t acutally experienced the spartan Scandanavian lifestyle. It leaves a great deal to be desired, to say the least. Let’s face it; both Socialism and Capitalism have their flaws, with winners and losers alike. At least in the capitalist system, by and large, the winners are those that deserve to win through their talents, efforts and perseverence. To pursue a socialist society is to completely ignore human nature. Don’t fret…your son will eventually awaken to reality.

  119. Comment By Briar Cavendish not published due to foul language and indecency, please review the Cincinnatus Blog comment Policy.

    “This blog has a diverse audience with different sensibilities and opinions. That said, please avoid harsh language and the use of profanity. Flaming or use of threatening language is not allowed nor will it be tolerated.”

    You are more than free to disagree as long as it is done in a rational and proper fashion.

  120. Great post. The follow up comments are very interesting. In particular the argument over socialism and capitalism.

    It seems to me that there is a misconception about what capitalism and socialism are. They are not political but economic. You can have any government you want and still have a capitalist society, the same can be said for socialism.

    Some definitions may be helpful:
    “In capitalism, economic decision making is done by individuals largely in their roles as consumers, owners of factors of production, and managers of firms; most economic resources are privately owned. In socialism, economic decision making is done by individuals largely in their roles as voters, politicians, and managers of firms; economic resources may be privately or publicly owned, but the control over resource allocation is by government, not by the owners of the resources.” –

    “Capitalism is an economic theory which stresses that control of the means of producing economic goods in a society should reside in the hands of those who invest the capital for production. It is a system based on the production of goods and services for exchange rather than use. Private ownership and free enterprise supposedly leads to more efficiency, lower prices, better products. Adam Smith popularized this theory in his 1776 book The Wealth of Nations.” –

    It is very difficult to concisely define socialism because most writings on socialism exist to explain why capitalism is bad, not to define socialism. When you take all of the writings and put them together you get a mix of political, social, and economic opinions that do not clearly state anything other than “property ownership is where all our problems come from.”

    Here is the only thing I would like to add to this discussion: no where in the definition of capitalism or socialism is money discussed. What is discussed is resources and value. In Adam Smith’s view, capital is assets available for use in the production of further assets. The irony of socialism is that it still contains capital, it is only who controls that capital that is important.

    Most of the issues discussed in this forum are really related to money. Our economic situation is simply a reflection of how our money no longer accurately measures value, and therefore is not reliable in trading for assets. How much is a gallon of gasoline worth? The answer really has nothing to do with the price of gasoline at the station. In economic terms we have severe market inefficiencies which benefit some and harm others.

    This does not remove the dilemma, as we still have to have money to trade whether in a capitalist or socialist environment. Only in a truly communist environment can money be removed, and the only true communist societies that have every existed are extremely small, isolated, and short lived. It takes a very strong person to resist the human drive to live a “better” life by having more. Once the strong leader who creates the commune dies or succumbs to normal human behavior the commune disintegrates rapidly.

    What do I think? Well, I prefer a system where the value returned to me matches the value I create. Unfortunately, that system exists nowhere in the world. The US is the closest to that ideal. Unfortunately, that is degraded on a daily bases by increased taxes, wealth redistribution, and further market inefficiencies.

    All markets are inefficient, the question is only how inefficient. The USSR was an example of extreme inefficiency that caused the fall of government. The bailout packages are extreme examples of wealth redistribution which is exaggerating existing inefficiencies. If the banks had been allowed to fail, the market inefficiencies they represent would have been reduced. If the big 3 auto makers are allowed to fail, the market inefficiencies they represent will be reduced. If inefficiencies are not reduced via standard market activities like bankruptcy, then they will be reduced by larger events like recessions and depressions (which have existed for as long as money has existed). The current bailouts are extending the recession. We are likely to enter a depression, not because of corruption or greed, but because of demographics and major changes in the amount and value of labor in the workforce. The bailout packages are merely adding confusion and uncertainty to the picture because the value of money is in flux even more that it would otherwise be.

    [on a side note, the executive officers of the companies being bailed out are not the ones benefiting from the bailout. The owners of the Federal Reserve banks are the ones benefiting.]

  121. One further note: The oil industry is socialist; the banking industry is socialist. The purpose of capitalism is to ensure that capital (assets, which includes labor) it put to productive use, the purpose of socialism is to control the distribution of wealth. Capitalism and Socialism have nothing to do with health care, starvation, or freedom; those can exist or not exist in both.

  122. I see that you are a politically correct sensor which means that ideas you do not want to hear are labeled as foul, indecent, flaming, and threatening. Of course you do not trust your readers whom you label as being “diverse and sensitive” from making up their own minds.

    However, you and your marxist-racist cohorts are far from paternalistic. You simply want to keep ideas, contradictory to your marxist-racist ideology from seeing the light of day.

    A petite fuhrer or tyrant is as bad as a major tyrant and you are obviously a Stalinist. Free speech is the last thing that thought-crime hooligans allow to contradict their hate-crimes.

  123. Moderation is another term for Afrocommunist censorship AND INHIBITION OF FREE SPEECH.

  124. Why don’t you let the man express his thoughts?

    Are you so cowardly that your little house of fools would crumble at the first assault of truth?

    Of course you are.

  125. @ Briar

    Yours was the first comment that I have ever decided to “not-approve” on this blog! Refrain from insulting everyone else and you can write whatever you please.

  126. As a Psychiatrist, I have never seen a group of white citizens as cowardly, emotional and politically worthless as American white males.
    Most of the brave jobs are taken by women because so many white American men are so effeminate. What made them that way?
    The marxist media and Hollywood has hammered out certain insane messages for decades:
    -White males are no good and worthless
    -Black males should be running things and mated with white women
    -Everyone who doubts such wisdom is a racist and if we call you racist we will ruin you.
    So sheep up or ship out..

    The world has never seen a sicker society when an 80% white majority allows itself to be dominated by an essential parasitic black minority.
    Resistnet advocates a continuance of white male subordination to blacks and respect for the criminal Obama who deserves no respect. Resisnet is a loose cannon that has been captured by the GOP Left Wing. That Left Wing has effectively destroyed the GOP as an independent political party. For 50 years the GOP has mostly been covertly controlled by the democrats, not that one party system is out in the open.
    The only hope for white males is to form their own political party and confront the blacks and the left in a no quarters protracted cultural war, no holds barred. If they remain too cowardly and stupid to do that, they will soon be wearing dog collars and led around by a chain controlled by inter-racisl couples.
    This is a jungle fight for the productivity of white males. Black and leftist parasites are determined to enslave that productivity.

  127. Just for the record, Obama is NOT a socialist! It would be great if he were, maybe you folks down there might actually get medicare for all instead of half of all your credit card bankruptcies being from medical bills. Obama took in more corporate donations than any other president in his bid for the White House. He knows who is paying his way and its not your average worker. BTW, my father didn’t pay for one cent of my education. I have a masters degree without debt because I worked like a dog during school. It helps that in “socialist” Canada we have lower tuition. It also helps that a hard work ethic and socialism are not incompatible.

  128. I would welcome a little socialism, a little redistribution of wealth, a Government that will care for me and tend to my needs. A Government that will insist that I own a home and lower the bar for me so that I can realize this dream. A Government that will tax that rich guy so that I too can have an enjoyable life style. Please, President Obama, make the fat cat pay, he has been living off of my back for far too long it’s about time I shared in the prosperity that exists.

  129. Well, in France, your son would never pay one cent for the world’s best healthcare (source: World Health Organization). He would also get a minimum of 6 weeks paid vacation every year of his career. He would also never pay more than $100 per month for day car if he ever has a child. (How much do people pay in NYC for day care?) He would also watch his kids go to any university they choose for virtually nothing. And his retirement would be rock solid and plenty for him to live on in old age.

    Yeah, you’re right. It sounds like hell on earth to me too.

  130. Thanks for the post Jones! I love the statistic at the end: “last year the highest paid hedge fund manager in the united states made an amount equal to the salaries of all 80,000 new york city school teachers for the next 3 years!”

  131. Well, in France, your son would never pay one cent for the world’s best healthcare (source: World Health Organization). He would also get a minimum of 6 weeks paid vacation every year of his career. He would also never pay more than $100 per month for day car if he ever has a child. (How much do people pay in NYC for day care?) He would also watch his kids go to any university they choose for virtually nothing. And his retirement would be rock solid and plenty for him to live on in old age.

    Yeah, you’re right. It sounds like hell on earth to me too.

    This is a very misleading view of France. I assume you haven’t spent much time there.

    The problem with this, and with Alessandro’s views, is not the idealism. Who doesn’t want everyone to have abundant healthcare and education? The problem is you want to force people to supply it. You want to mandate your world view; mandate your idea of being socially conscious.

    If I choose to disagree with you, what are you going to do? I assume, throw me in prison. You don’t see the irony? How very magnanimous of you to impose your view of morality on everyone. It illustrates just how deeply you care.

    Has there ever been a despot who didn’t think they were improving the world? It is the hubris of the elite to want to impose their ordering principles on the world.

    The proper conservative view is we’re all equals, trading (or not) by our own decisions, right or wrong. People may end up trading in ways you and I dislike, but the general principle of freedom is valued more than imposing a specific moral view.

    And that, of course, has nothing to do with this big-government travesty perpetrated on us my both parties for decades.

  132. I have written about my own life under socialism in America. It is called I Am Your Warning: My Socialist Life. You can find the link here.

    I hope you will read it and come to understand what is in store when the state has control over every aspect of your life. I am fighting to be free!

  133. “The proper conservative view is we’re all equals, trading (or not) by our own decisions, right or wrong. People may end up trading in ways you and I dislike, but the general principle of freedom is valued more than imposing a specific moral view.” -Antioch

    Antioch here is unfortunately making an argument that wouldn’t hold a feather let alone water! To argue that enforcing a Conservative/Republican agenda is to NOT force people to do as you wish is a false tautology! You are still very much forcing people to do as you wish, AND it is also forcing a moral code on everyone to boot! To situate the value and worth of a person as involving trade is already to steep yourself in an ideological tradition that not everyone adheres to, and which has very flawed moral underpinnings!

    The only thing is, we’re starting to realize that the moral crap that we have sunk ourselves in does not provide for any sort of viable future if we do not include healthcare for everyone. For Antioch to argue he doesn’t want to be forced to pay for “those other people” (you know, like they’re not neighbors, citizens, with whom we share the same water sources and food producing fields…) is the same as saying that people are not being forced right now to die and suffer and acrue debt due to inadequate or nonexistent healthcare!

    Oh, you don’t wanna pay for it now, but we’ll ALL be paying for it in the future alright. We’ll be paying when something far worse than swine flu shows up and we don’t have enough doctors or adequate healthcare. We’ll pay when we don’t have a citizenry who have had consistent healthcare all their lives to shore up their immune systems, so America gets hit with a superbug and becomes the black hole into which no one will go or invest money because We Let People Die here.

    Now Antioch, that’s not a moral code that makes any sense at all.

  134. Yep its a new world out there. California bankrupt and by the end of the year 60 billion in the red.. How about NewYork and NewJersey and of course there is the peoples’ republic of Mass. How is the great country of England doing and Russia. Now Russia had the all the answers back in the 30′s, how did that work out. For all you bedwetting liberals who think Obama is the answer take a good look at history, Socialism does not work, Focus on the problem: its government, both parties… the gates are down the lights are flashing but the train is not coming..

  135. Author’s comment:

    “I suggest you reread the article more slowly and try to understand what it actually says. You have completely mischaracterized my statements. Does the word incremental mean anything to you? If not, an investment in a dictionary would be warranted.”

    From the text of the blog:

    “WHAT! An incremental federal tax of 25%, state tax of 6.85%, city tax of 3.65%, my half of social security 6.2% and don’t forget 1.45% for Medicare – what’s left for me, only 57% and I have to pay $2,000 for a studio apartment.”

    57% suggests he would be paying the 25% rate on his entire income, which is not true, as “Educated Citizen” pointed out. Just sticking in the word “incremental” a few times doesn’t make this post any less deceptive.

    Am I literate enough to be “and [sic] educated citizen”? (Oh, the irony!)

  136. They had taxes in ancient Rome and they had taxes in feudal times. Taxes in capitalist society go to pay for social and physical overhead. There’s nothing particularly socialist about taxes, even high taxes. That taxes socialise some of these overhead costs means nothing. After all, prices in a capitalist economy do exactly the same thing.

    I humbly suggest that you have no idea what the term ‘socialism’ means.

  137. Great article Sir.
    I live in Canada and as you know we are on the road to becoming France if we don’t stop these Marxists.
    We’ve kicked our socialists out for a bit anyway; but I’m sure they’ll be back. I’m in Toronto and this is San Francisco lite.It makes me vommit.

    I am 53 years yuong and do get a kick out of reading replies like Foobird above who no doubt was an Obama voter and now butt boy.
    These are folks educated in NA so it is understandable why they think as they do since our schools and Universities are indoctrinating skulls full of mush such as Foobird.

    I’ve had to reinvent myself in my 50′s.I am building my own pension online and off.I work for my self and am not wealthy but do well.I would like the Foobirds to be forced to learn to build a business which would teach him 100x more than say a Harvard degree which your boy president has.Look how ignorant and out of touch this idiot is.

    have a great day!

    What amazes me is they call health care “free”.

  138. The real problem is politicians – republicans and democrats alike. They’ve allowed large corporations to “cook their books” and stick it to investors, all the while lining their own pockets with investor dollars.
    Politicians no longer have to vote themselves a big raise every year, they’ve made a law that automatically gives them a raise – they didn’t like having to vote on it! Brought about bad press! We need to ban together and put a stop to this.
    Politicians vote on bills and laws that they haven’t even read – how is that representation?
    The government is way too large, bloated and out of control. The ONLY time they care about the tax payers is election time!
    Why are politicians not held to their promises? Can anyone else lie about everything to get a job, not do anything they promised, and then give themselves big fat raises?
    Why should the entrepreneur who works his ass off and makes a decent living be forced to give up his money to the lazy, TV watching, welfare, drug addict that refuses to work, but instead is of the mindset that he/she is “owed” a living? Or, the young 15 year old baby machine that pumps out babies so she doesn’t have to work? She gets more welfare, food stamps, housing allowance, medical care, etc., etc. for every baby she has. Does anyone else see a problem here?
    We have to reign in our government, severely punish every act of fraud against the taxpayer – whether it’s medicare, tax evasion, welfare, whatever, and get serious about balancing our budget!
    You know we are in trouble when the fastest growing industry in the country is government jobs.
    Time for everyone to get educated, get involved, and write, call, e-mail,and fax our politicians – all of them – over and over, and let them know that we are demanding real change – not Obama’s change, but real change! Be a good American and do your part!

  139. God put me and everyone else here with a few simple rules.
    There are the basic ten commandments, and the part about taking care of myself and my family, providing for them. Simple responsibilities.

    I sit here and read some of this nonsense and realize why people have forgot God. In order to have there hand extended as much as they do, they have to so they don’t feel bad about it.

    While Bush went wacko in his final days, Obama stepped in and saw the perfect oppetunity to drive the US into socialism by screwing the nation up even worse. Now either he wanted to do this, his handlers wanted him to do this, or he’s too stupid to figure out what he was doing. Which brings up the first question, who is actually running the country?

    Second, it’s no surprize this happened. When you have illegal aliens either not paying taxes, or paying taxes against false documents which the money has to be sit on and held by the government, coupled by the fact that 60 cents of every dollar gets sent to Mexico and not returned into the local economy it’s a matter of time before it blows up.

    Now with these two things happening, the economy tanking does two things, first it creates massive unemployment. Second, because the jobs still need to be done, there’s just less money for payroll, you create a larger welfare state in the ranks of the US citizens, and you end up employing more illegals.

    Then you go to a hospital and a bandaid costs $500. Why? because the paying customer needs to pay for all the bandaids that didn’t get paid for. It’s just like a gas station. If it’s in a bad neighborhood and gets robbed all the time and gets drive off’s alot the prices go up to cover the difference, or the station looses enough money they go out of business. Hospitals can’t simply go out of business like other places. The regulation is different. So the charge $500 for items that cost .10 cents because they have to. Again, why? The stupid regulation that says they have to treat everyone that comes through the door, no matter what. I understand why the Mexicans come here, if Mexico was handing out free beer, taco’s and health care we would be going down there. Problem is that they ain’t. Neither is Canada for that matter. It’s never free, someone has to pay for it.

    The have’s and the have not’s, and the don’t give a shits.
    Three types of people in this country. There are the ones that do it right, play by the rules and work for what they have, no matter how much opulence, or how little they have, they still play it straight and have the pride in that. The ones that live paycheck to paycheck still question why the government subsitized apartments down the road ha a parking lot full of cars much nicer than what they drive, and see them getting more steak than hamburger in the store. But the pride they have in doing it right makes them battle on.
    The have not’s don’t really exist any more, the welfare system has seen to that. They live better than the have’s for the most part. This strikes the have’s as sick and twisted.
    And the don’t give a shits. These are the welfare state types, and the ones that are the true bleed hearts. They of course vote their raises and conscience every election. And give more to the ones with less, except they now have more than the ones that that are not on welfare. Odd.

    A simple fix would be a scaled voting system. Those that are on welfare get one vote, those that aren’t get two. The more you contribute to society as a whole, the more say you have in it. If you don’t contribute you don’t have a say.
    We have been fighting this sort of crap for years. Cities all do the same crap, people that work in the cities, don’t live in the cities, they can’t vote there but they pay taxes there. The people it the cities, are on welfare and don’t pay any taxes on income so they vote for all the income tax hikes, after all it’s to their benefit, and costs them nothing. It’s why sales taxes are so hard to raise on a ballot. Income taxes though are easy to raise.

  140. No matter your ideology or appetite for “enjoy now, pay later,” one thing we can all agree on is that everything we buy contains ENERGY. Some things are 100% energy, some are 20%, but few purchases are less than 20% cost in energy content. From Coca Cola to Corollas, we all rely on low energy costs to sustain our lifestyles. Reliable, affordable energy is arguably a bigger factor in our happiness than socialism vs. capitalism!

    That’s why we can ill afford intermittent, expensive wind energy as a nebulous, faith based replacement for coal, nuclear, natural gas or oil. it just doesn’t cut it. But nuclear CAN – affordably, safely, compactly, and reliably. Wind energy is a scam whether you are a communist, a socialist a liberal or a conservative…

  141. What can be done?

    As far as I can tell, the biggest underlying problem is the Fed.

    Therefore, we should all write to our congressmen and simply state that if they do not act to revoke the Fed’s charter, we guarantee that we will not vote for them, no matter to which party they belong.

    The Fed is the real enemy of the citizens, it was formed for the benefit of bankers, and has proven its loyalties time after time. It has failed time after time. The only depression that had a quick recovery was in 1921, when the Fed did nothing! Remember also, inflation is a hidden tax. It robs you of your wealth just as much as any mugger, and inflation is a stated goal of the Fed.

  142. It is so entertaining to read the opinions of people who do not seem to know the limitations of words (read Francis Bacon’s “The Four Idols” for enlightenment).

    Socialism is utopia, with everyone living well — AND — socialism is totalitarian central planning, with everyone told how to live. Capitalism is the land of opportunity — AND — capitalism is extremes of poverty and excesses of wealth.

    Perhaps it might be more constructive to begin (after recognizing the sources of our own ignorance — see Bacon) by deciding what is moral. This might prevent us from demonizing each other as tyrants who want to enslave us or greedy bandits who would willingly let us starve.

  143. Anyone who is still cheering for Obama after his squandering the nation’s wealth and its future either 1)has no brain, 2)has drunk the Koolaid, or 3)is a liberal hypocrite.
    If George Bush had even APPROACHED this kind of idiocy, libs would have burned him at the stake. But there is a lot they do not understand, starting with numbers. I disagreed with the foolish spending by the Bush Administration — abetted by its Democrat Congress — but it does not begin to compare with what BO has already done. And he has just begun.

  144. The internet is really forgiving and can absorb anything. Where were the fathers to protect democracy and fiscal responsibility so their children could have a decent education and health coverage?
    Who could afford to buy an apartment in NYC when a really small percentage of the population, that doesn’t even live in the city, spends their obscene bonuses on real estate in the city.

    The French have lots of shortcomings (and racism is probably one of the biggest) but it would be fair to compare different age and social groups to draw a real picture about an average French person. I bet it would be difficult to explain why the French have access to sophisticated medical services, while here even with a great coverage my dentist cannot get their payment in less than 6 months from my insurance company.

    Obama is just another demagogue. I have no illusions about him, but if our fathers were so insightful why didn’t they fight for what is right ? Giving cynical lectures to your kids will definitely not improve their prospects in life.

    The French would not hesitate to throw a rotten tomato to their president if they suspected he/she would not hold their part of the bargain. I doubt our fathers have the courage to do that today.

    No one needs fathers like you. You have failed this country and your son.

  145. isn’t it a bit sad that you have to take aim at your own son in a public forum? it must be a rough relationship.
    I’m a socialist and my father was a high-level DoD official and we can have our flare-ups, but as far as I know he’s not taking pot-shots at me from the blogosphere.
    one thing that’s hilarious here is to read comments that no one predicted the crisis. that simply isn’t true and you have to be ignorant to have missed the signs.
    of course, socialists were first to predict it because for socialists, crises are endemic to capitalism. that’s what it does, it goes from crisis to crisis with spurts of growth in between. history shows that this is a simple fact.
    but even non-socialists and socialists who care enough to look at the facts outside of their ideological lens noticed that something was amiss. to name but one, think of Ed Gramlich.
    it was a convergence of factors, the most predictable of which was the element of unrestrained human greed fueled by capitalism’s inherent uncertainties (read, fear of not making a profit or falling behind).
    there are two ironies to point out:
    1) free-market fundamentalists like to say that socialists are ‘unrealistic’. Strange, given the demonstrated susceptibility of capitalism to eat itself and bring down everyone with it. capitalism is powerful and does many things efficiently and well. but without sensible restraints to make a broad and solid foundation, growth is erected like a jenga puzzle, in other words stupidly and tilted in favor of a tiny few.
    2) free-market fanatics also like to proclaim their conservatism. but they fail to note how, by ceding control over the details of life to the free market, they render everything vulnerable to perpetual change. nothing is sacred, nothing carries intrinsic value outside the economy. the market is about flux, movement, mobility and transformation. what is conservative about that? nothing. which is why in the rest of the world free-market proponents are called ‘liberals.’ they want to free up everything to the tides of change brought by money and ‘progress.’

    now, i like progress too. i like life expectancy to be high, medical treatment to be advanced, education to be solid, opportunities for travel to be bountiful, heating in the winter, a/c in the summer, and all the trappings of modern life.
    but we fool ourselves if we take the free-market ideologues at face value when they say everything is provided by the market. i’m sorry, the free market didn’t send someone to the moon. it didn’t build the highways.
    simply put, the market has never been able to always allocate our energies and capital toward the most edifying or rewarding ends. why trust it ever would?

  146. Obama is just the democratic version of Bush. Bush is a “good Ole Boy” and Obama is “Home Boy”. Bush wears Blue, Obama wears Black. Bush is a White Guy. Obama is a Black Guy. Bush likes ranches, Obama likes mansions. Bush never really did anything. Obama pretends to have done something. They both went to Harvard. They do what they are told to do by the Power Elite and they get paid well for being in the front while the guys in the back room make the policy and reap the bucks. Bush didn’t start this mess. This Mess started way back and each President cut off our freedoms and stole our money little by little. Look back past Bush to Clinton who sold our country to the chinese and gave us Nafta…All of them sold out our country. The only difference in obama is he’s Black….1/2 black. The only reason they used him was to get the “black” vote to make sure the Dems won this time…Back and forth across the ping pong table….It keeps you so busy you can’t see that each one of them doesn’t give a damn about you. They take your money while you work yourself to death and they get rich doing it. Today N.Korea is launching another missle and Obama is in NY at the Theatre…How “COOL”. What a shmuck. Why didn’t they at least give us Denzel Washington…Now he’s Cool.

  147. To my Liberal friends: USE A CALCULATOR. And please, please, study Keynesian econ vs. the Austrian Business Cycle. You do, and all will come together for you. I promise.

    “Bush did it first!” ..Yeah. We know. But um.. Obama’s doing it now..? We’re talking about NOW. And the future. Bush was a terrible president in many ways. Obama will likely prove to be far worse. BOTH are puppets. Red or blue, it doesn’t matter much, we’re losing our freedom either way.

    The government was instated to serve US, the people. They work for US! Yet we’re being forced to nationalize banks and industry, and to fork over our children and grandchildren’s hard, if not harder-earned money through future taxation. It’s easy to tax someone who’s not alive to protest it.

    The truly die hard Obama fans are just like Bush Republicans in their refusal to look at the cold facts. Or, at least draw logical conclusions from them. However, this bunch is much creepier.. the doe-eyed drooling, the singing, the weeping.. the unfounded belief that he’s “the One” who will solve all of America’s problems. It’s reminiscent of a Beatles concert. Or a Mussolini speech.

    Peace and Liberty.

  148. Regarding:
    “Why should the entrepreneur who works his ass off and makes a decent living be forced to give up his money to the lazy, TV watching, welfare, drug addict that refuses to work, but instead is of the mindset that he/she is “owed” a living? Or, the young 15 year old baby machine that pumps out babies so she doesn’t have to work? She gets more welfare, food stamps, housing allowance, medical care, etc., etc. for every baby she has. Does anyone else see a problem here?” -Gingergirl
    “God put me and everyone else here with a few simple rules.
    There are the basic ten commandments, and the part about taking care of myself and my family, providing for them. Simple responsibilities.
    I sit here and read some of this nonsense and realize why people have forgot God. In order to have there hand extended as much as they do, they have to so they don’t feel bad about it.” -Keith

    Look GingerGirl and Keith, most of the people who would benefit from the health care reforms would NOT be the faulty stereotypes that you two mention!!! It would be the hardworking people like my father, who is a retired United States Marine – whoorah – and lost his job in this crap economy. Now, he has hurt his arm badly but cannot go to the hospital because he has no insurance!!! What nonsense is this??? When he worked damned hard his whole life to support his family and serve his country and suffers with his elbow day in and day out!!!

    And at least a half dozen of my friends whose parents lost their jobs due to the crap economy, what about them?? Are they socialists for believing that after giving 40 or 50 years to America they should not be thrown out like garbage? 40 years of raising good hardworking, striving children like myself, who believe in the dream and are in graduate school or working to feed our own children! Yes, at least a half dozen that I know personally whose “lazy” parents, after 30+years at a job were fired! And now we’re all scrambling trying to figure out how we’re gonna provide for our parents who have no more retirement funds (cause they have to live off of them now!) as well as our own children and maybe pay off outrageous student loan debt in our lifetime…

    This level of selfishness from so many people posting here terrifies me! Is shakes me to my core to think that we could live in a place of such wealth and possibility and yet be so very, very selfish and downright unchristian – because Keith contrary to what you say, My Lord and Savior preached giving and kindness and taking care of your fellow man!

    Sigh. And people wonder why American’s are so angry and unhappy – like so many of the posters on here – when people in places where healthcare and education are covered are so much happier.

  149. with a name like cincinatus, one would think you would have a sense of history.

    this deficit is not the result a five-months-in-term president — this was created over 25 years. it started with your Dear Leader Regan and continued with Young Bush.

    enjoy trying to rewrite history.

  150. What is it they say? A Republican is a Democrat who just got mugged? And a Democrat is a Republican who just lost their health care. There is a letter from Chrysler dealer in Florida making the email rounds. The guy is in trouble losing his franchise and I feel for him and his employees. What I don’t get is his query, “How can this happen in a free-market system?”

  151. Apparently there are still people in this country who believe that we can continue spending (printed) money to get out of debt. Even with his own advisors telling the One this is not sustainable, his sheepies follow behind him begging for more spending. Until I had to pay my own way in life, I also had a liberal lean. I grew up and figured out along the way that fiscal conservatism was the only way to go. Who are these people in the US that can’t get health care? I’ve living all over the US and know plenty of people with no health care (my son included for some time) and none were ever denied the care. Now that HE owns GM (don’t think that it is you that owns it because it isn’t) his next power grab will be Health Care. I noticed in some of the comments that people have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to the economy. Let’s hope it’s your age and not your IQ. I did not sign up for a Muslim president with Islamofacist ideas.

  152. The following captures what Obama and the Dems plan is–the slow, but persistent loss of our freedom:

    Catching Wild Pigs

    A chemistry professor in a large college had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab the Professor noticed one young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back, and stretching as if his back hurt.

    The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country’s government and install a new communist government.

    In the midst of his story he looked at th e professor and asked a strange question. He asked, ‘Do you know how to catch wild pigs?’

    The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said this was no joke. ‘You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in The last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat, you slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd.

    Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.

    The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening to America . The government keeps pushing us toward socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc.. While we continually lose our freedoms — just a little at a time.

    One should always remember: There is no such thing as a free lunch! Also, a politician will never provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself.

    “A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have”

    Thomas Jefferson

  153. Bookish Betty—Why don’t YOU take care of your father? Why do you look to government to do what you should be doing for your own family? This is what socialism does to us–it removes from us the repsonsiblity to look after ouselves and for those around us. Can’t you do a better job takng care of your father and seeing that he gets proper medical care than relying on some government program that will decide if his needs are worthy of care? What will you do whne your hallowed programs don’t work? They haven’t worked in Russia, Europe, Canada or anywhere else. Where will you turn then?

  154. The attack on our freedoms comes from BOTH SIDES; Republicans AND Democrats. Seriously people. The sooner you realize that it’s a one-party system with two factions, the sooner we can take back one of the parties… that is, those of us who consider our freedoms the bottom line, those of you who stick by the Constitution and the specific limits to government interference outlined in the Bill of Rights.

    Third-partiers have gained more numbers between ’04 and ’08 than at any other time in history. There has been an exodus from both parties, but MAINLY the Republican party. It’s been fragmenting for some time. There are a lot of people on all sides of the political spectrum who realize our freedoms are under attack no matter who sits in the white house. Money and power are in the middle of big time consolidation right now, if you haven’t noticed. Do the People have anything to do with this? Can they blame it all on the unprepared buyers? Even if they could, would it be fair for them to saddle ALL Americans, even the ones who always made good choices, with over-taxation? Not just those of living NOW, but our kid’s paychecks will be much less, and our grandchildren’s as well. IS THIS OK WITH YOU?!?!?!

    FORGET THE REPUBLOCRAT PARADIGM. If you really want to see things change (for the better), and I think deep down we ALL want to see this land a free country still for our future children and grandchildren? Let’s pull together to start holding ALL government agents accountable, to US, the People, and to the founding documents that protect us from tyranny.

    In Liberty!

  155. hmmmm.. maybe you said it best yourself- the top 1-2% of earners still can’t hope to REALLY get ahead. What does that tell you, compared to the situation in France?

    Of course of course I can hear you complaining about teh tax burden of the rich, that 1% of the population pays 50% of the income tax or is it 80% this week? And what does THAT tell you? That the income distribution in the US is so skewed that 1% of the population makes virtually all the money; they’re the only ones with enough money to PAY taxes.

    It always amuses me this argument- the rich carry the poor on taxes. That’s because the rich have virtually ALL the money compared to the poor. But that’s too logical for a conservative, I’m sure. There there, perhaps you should sit down.

    Let’s see. deregulation of the financial markets left us with a banking system that was little more than a highly interconnected house of cards waiting for a push. (but see The Black Swan for details) which itself was the creation of BS economics theories (but see The Black Swan for details) while deregulation of the mortgage industry (get government off business’s backs! ) gave us boiler room operators with “neutron loans” (destroys the home owner but leaves the house standing ..haw haw haw haw…) and ARMs and Byzantine lending agreements designed to be indecipherable foisted on uncomprehending signatories by high pressure sales men who were playing a game of pass the trash with the banks….

    Oh yeah, then AIG and Bear Stearns et. al got into the game and created financial products with 40 to 1 leverage because these deregulated captains of industry with their quants and their risk portfolios (but see the Black Swan for details) know that the American Dream is best achieved by over leveraging yourself since the outrageous amount of money you can make in such a deal doesn’t take any extra, you know, WORK, on your part.

    Yeah, those Frenchies with their crazy socialist ideas about redistributing wealth. We do it right here. Here, under the banner of “deregulation” we let companies get SO BIG that society can no longer afford to let them fail! Then, we bail them out with taxpayer money because it’s either do that or watch your whole economic system go under.

    Socialism for the rich, survival of the fittest for the poor… Yeah,… we do it right here… we have our priorites straight./

    Hmmmm.. France or the US – which would Jesus create?

  156. Bookish Betty,i find it amusing that as a “Christian” your main concern for America is a free ride with other people’s money,i find no such mandate in the Bible,people are told to be charitable with their own money,not another’s…read your bible again and i think you will see that there are other more pressing issues in America today,issues like envy,covetousness,greed,both from the wealthy and poor,lust,the desire to have more than what one can afford,and then theft when you appeal to governemnet to steal it from your neighbor…yes,Bookish Betty needs to read her bible all over agin.

  157. [...] This post was Twitted by gryffn – [...]

  158. Using the Quote of Winston Churchill ; “A man younger than 30 who’s not a liberal has no heart, and a man older than 30 who’s not a conversative has no brain.”
    I have formulated a perception of many different interpetations, and the reality I vote upon is first spiritual and then also in other perceptable forms to others. I will vote on my normal that is to say my perception of social aspects of normality. Social aspects come to play in the traditional contexts and even rituals of every culture. Though keep in mind socialogy is not everything but is the means to which society is built. Every culture that in this place and time in which evolved at, and still stands are the ones that are founded in spiritual tradition. In this great country the United States of America the Constitution even a document of liberal morality standing is the instituted reality with a US citizen when an individual votes coming to the state of a psychological perception, and heartfelt strength helps instill amended guidence. Further advances to bond your rite with the original procedure of God, hence this country is deep rooted in the faith of God. In my perceptive opinion trying to seperate God from reality by fear of a cowards mind, is a mind lacking truth and is portal to insanity even in a place of authority those beings that lack God simply put. These might hold, godless authority making decision power and in the unseen warfare are considered dictators and dangerous. That is my belief of great conservative nature. Even if majorities of the world lack true Christian nature satan will never suceed and the unseen warfare will again and again be victories of God. I firmly am set in the measure of great hope. If we Christians continue in great faith where my hope is not alone, but in the mind of Christ and also where we the people of Christ Jesus build on the cornerstone. He is the great Cornerstone and build upon the Christian fellowship the body of every Christian is the closes church. In great hope all is possible, I pray that the evil things of this world will become the smaller unpopular things, then eventually in great Christian hopes, fully replace evil ,as even the creations of evil lose their memories upon the earth and God will seal up the things of evil in eternal matters of hell, never to rise above to earth to bring temptation to the restoration of earth, and nothing unholy can enter the Kingdom of God, these things and even concepts are even truths to be by the power of the Christian people in the law of liberty, justice and extra distances traveled, past the expection, which is the hope put to a good work. The end result is total peace after the great and trying warfare of good against evil and the convert of enemies turning to repentance. In the end we shall hope that no one should perish, but rather that they turn from their old sinful ways , and submit a life centered in our parts of labor for and with Christ to shine peace, and by peace, tuning up authorities to all follow the ways of God to make United Nations and in this we all must say… In God we Trust…

    Peacefulness from a US Citizen and Citizen of God’s Holy Kingdom,

    Andrew Joseph Whitacre

    Peace be with all of God’s Creation, it is written,

    Andrew Joseph Whitacre

  159. Once again its not who is in the oval office its congress .Automatic pay raises, free health care, no term limits,unlimited expense account. Can you believe they vote on bills without reading them. I cant find anyone except a elected official who will sign or vote on a contract with out reading it first. They all know they can promiise us anything to get elected.but …..once in office the dont need us .Vote them all out every election

  160. HEY! …………..Is their some type of war still going on in the middle east ???? i forget .

  161. Democracy-(noun): A system of government which insures that its citizens are governed no better than they deserve.

    Socialism-(abomination): 1. A faculty run by Idealists, followed by ignorant narcissists, and scorned by the scholars and veterans of experience. 2. A fools party.

    Although I may not agree with the opening quote, moderate as I am. I would first like to appluad the use of the Obama adiministrations blasphemic agenda as an example of socialist ratification of counter-procuctive fiscal stimulus. But more to the point I agree nearly completely with the lecture you gave to your son. The socialist party is nothing more than a spineless front for a gathering of narrow-minded freethinkers that cant accept oblivious attention (drowning wall street with bailouts in this instance) isn’t the answer for a critical deficit of exponential proportions.
    I have no real rebuttle to this article as I’m simply addressing it in order to state my views accordance with it and to associate myself with something more than the predominately ignorant and pompous masses of my own age and class groups.

    - A wandering diplomat for common sense in a diminishing nation. Dustin D. Long (age 16)

  162. @ Dustin,

    You seem like a very smart kid, maybe when you get to college and read the proper pieces that would permit you to formulate an educated argument, (instead of just pontificating) you will do so.

    It has often been said, “you cannot be a true intelectual unless your are socially minded”

    … Just in case you have not read my other comments, In no way shape or form am I a socialist… So many people that have read this article (and commented on it) have missed the humour…

    Nonetheless, in life it is important to be critical… Before you formulate a blind sighted argument I am going to give you a homework assignment, read “On the Genealogy of Morality” by Nietzsche followed by a short story in “Thus spoke Zarathustra” named “Of the tarantulas”. Then get back to me

  163. Quit your carping and whining. Americans have their head up their ass regarding socialism.

    America is VERY SOCIALIST–when it comes to propping up insolvent banks, insurance companies, executive bonuses, and defense spending. Call it lemon socialism and the “military industrial complex.

    France is much better than USA! At least they can have an intelligent conversation on socialism and capitalism there. Dumbfuck Americans only watch Fox News and parrot whatever Bill OReilly tells them to say. Hopeless idiots.

    Speaking as an American, I much prefer Europe to USA because they have a much more advanced social welfare system, better healcare, more affordable universities, and more cultural diversity.

    America is a sinking ship run by corporate cartels and the corporate mafia.

    America=”socialism for the rich ONLY. Everybody else go fuck off and die–go work your stupid Wal-Mart job :-D

  164. After reading about one-quarter of the comments posted (and then stopping), I must say that I am saddened about how little proof people bring to the table and how badly people want to vilify one party or the other for all of the country’s problems. It is both parties’ fault and has been for over 30 years — because both parties keep instituting greater control and welfare-warfare policies. Please look up the article “Socialism’s Success” online; it provides proof of my assertion.

  165. I’m German, and, like some others who have left comments, I want to point out that the the American system, even with the changes coming under Obama, still won’t look or function like a socialist state. No one is proposing the nationalization of industry, there are no national labor unions working with socialist parliamentary parties to change the nature of the state, and no one is proposing to abolish private property. All of this Republican nonsense about the looming specter of “socialism” is completely overblown. If your taxes are high, it’s because you’ve spent your money on stupid crap over the last 30 years.

    As for the deficits you’re so worried about: They’d be about 700 billion a year for most of the next decade, right? And, at the moment, you spend about 700 billion a year on your military…does that seem like a sound investment to you? Israel alone is costing you 3 billion a year in subsidies. How’s the return on that investment? I think the US could resolve the entire deficit question simply by embracing a foreign policy that is less focused on imposing it’s will on the rest of the world.

    One more thing: In 2008, I believe the US spent about 600 billion on foreign oil. Figure out how to meet your own energy needs, and it would stanch a lot of the financial bleeding. There is low-hanging fruit, here, and all it would take to harvest it would be to stop behaving like such a bunch of bloated, arrogant douchebags (I love this word…one of the greatest contributions Americans have made to international culture).

  166. …no wonder your son is coming to you for money; I lived in NYC until recently, and $2000 for a studio apartment is way expensive. He should look for a place in Crown Heights or maybe somewhere in Queens. If you look enough, you can still find studio apartments for under $1000 in NYC–and moving into a place like that might put him into closer contact with the proletariat.

  167. I wish y’all conservatives had started to worry about the debt back in the days of Reagan.

    Reagan/Bush, if you recall, pushed the debt from 35% of GDP to 65%. Even Carter had managed to decrease the debt burden.

    And I wish you gave Clinton his due for cutting the debt burden.

    By all mean criticize Obama, but keep in mind that he inherited 50% of the deficit from ‘conservatives’.

    If only we continued with Jimmy Carter’s fiscal prudence, then debt would be 10% of GDP, and not pushing 100%.

    See figure at

  168. “It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.” — Murray N. Rothbard

  169. For some reason, a link to this post appears on the top of my gmail account. I welcome advertising that is actually targeted to my interests. I also welcome websites that provide analysis of economic policy by experts in that field. This blog is not written by an expert in the field, and I find nothing interesting or valuable in it. I respectfully request that you better target your advertising, so that people like myself do not have to see the words “My son, the socialist,” over their inbox several times a week.

  170. @Isaiah
    We have no arrangement with gmail and do not know why a link would appear on your email account.

  171. Why didn’t anyone hear any dire predictions before the latest recession?

    I know one same part of the answer to that. In a world of educated idiot economists proudly displaying their college degrees and other credentials, no one invites a lower class US Army Soldier with a high school diploma to speak on any news programs about the future of our economy.

    If you give subprime loans out to people who cannot afford to pay them back as a means to ‘help the poor’ and encourage the wealthy and middle class to think of investing in the debt incurred as a profitable venture, something is going to have to give. With the push to force banks to sell such horrible ideas to their clients, that something was the overall economy, and it fell hard.

    Ah, but I should be grateful that modern higher education gave us such intelligent economists with the foresight to pull the wool over their own eyes.

  172. Socialism and Communism are really great on PAPER. As the old saying goes “anything fits on paper”. But the reality is, No socialist or communist country in the history of the world, has ever succeded, nor have they ever been able to provide its citizens with the standard of life that we enjoy in this country. Most americans don’t appreciate what they HAD.
    For those who don’t know how the financial crash happened, please read the following article and educate yourselves.

    October 26, 2008
    Why the Mortgage Crisis Happened
    By M. Jay Wells
    Obama’s economic narrative of the mortgage crisis ignores the facts. He has put free-market capitalism at the root of the current mortgage industry debacle, denying the real history of government interference in that market.
    On September 15, with banking giant Lehman Brothers filing for bankruptcy protection, Obama was given the opening to begin weaving his anti-capitalist storyline. And that he did. Artfully blurring the mortgage industry crisis with generalized tax policy, Obama declared,

    “I certainly don’t fault Senator McCain for these problems, but I do fault the economic philosophy he subscribes to. It’s a philosophy we’ve had for the last eight years, one that says we should give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else.”

    The words were carefully chosen. That day in Colorado marked his return to the teleprompter and a strictly refocused campaign message intent on surreptitiously fusing the mortgage industry woes and free-market capitalism in general. Confident the American people are primed for his socialist brand of “change,” Obama maintained his anti-capitalist theme, “What we have seen in the last few days is nothing less than the final verdict on an economic philosophy that has completely failed.” According to Obama, capitalism has been “rendered . . . a colossal failure.”

    His chat with a Toledo, Ohio, plumber showcases his socialist, redistributionist ideology:

    “It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too. . . . I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

    He had already said as much at an April debate where he said his plan was to “look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness” (after having just admitted that raising the tax would reduce revenues!). For Obama, increased federal revenue be damned, tax increases are nonetheless necessary for redistributionist “fairness.”

    Contrary to the Obama narrative, however, it is not free-market capitalism at the root of the current mortgage industry crisis, but rather the very socialism Obama hawks. The historical record makes this fact unmistakably clear.

    The Growing Government Hand


    President Franklin D. Roosevelt initiated a series of “New Deal” reform programs designed to affect the mortgage market and homeownership. Fannie Mae, the Federal National Mortgage Association, was established to facilitate liquidity among lending institutions.


    As part of President Johnson’s Great Society reform plan, much of Fannie Mae became a private owned yet government chartered company, a government sponsored enterprise (GSE) providing authority to issue mortgage-backed securities (MBS). Fannie Mae buys home mortgages in order to preserve liquidity in the secondary mortgage market. Though private, it remained backed by the Federal government.


    President Nixon chartered Freddie Mac, the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation, as a GSE to compete with Fannie Mae. Designed to help grow the secondary mortgage market, Freddie Mac purchases mortgages from lending institutions to either be securitized as MBS and sold in the secondary market or held by Freddie Mac. At this time the secondary market for conventional mortgages was small.


    Sen. Proxmire (D-Wisconsin) introduced a “creeping socialism” community reinvestment Senate bill. Opponents argued the bill would allocate credit without regard for merits of loan applications, thereby threatening depository institutions. Proponents countered that it was only to ensure that lenders did not ignore good borrowing prospects in their communities. The bill’s sponsor stressed it would neither force high-risk lending nor substitute the views of regulators or those of banks.

    President Carter, pressed by grassroots organizations — though opposed by the banking industry, signed into law the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA). In the years following the Act has undergone several revisions.

    To boost community development laws, CRA was a provision designed to stem bank “redlining,” the practice of drawing a red line around low-income communities and denying lending in these areas. The original intent of CRA was to encourage banks to foster homeownership opportunities in these underserved communities in which the lending institutions are chartered.

    According to Section 801 of title VIII, “regulated financial institutions are required by law to demonstrate that their deposit facilities serve the convenience and needs [i.e., credit and deposit services] of the communities in which they are chartered to do business.” Accordingly, “regulated financial institutions have continuing and affirmative obligation” to meet these needs. Moreover, the title required each “appropriate Federal financial supervisory agency to use its authority when examining financial institutions, to encourage such institutions.”


    With CRA came increased oversight of lending institutions to ensure they were giving credit to low- and moderate-income communities. Regulators expressed that CRA was not designed to compel credit allocation, nor did it require risky lending practices. Moreover, ECOA (Equal Credit Opportunity Act) and FHA, not CRA, were in place to address discrimination in lending. But community organization groups like the radical ACORN began efforts to reshape CRA into government-imposition, in accord with what “affirmative obligation” might suggest. They began pressing the semantic open door and stretching the “discrimination” provision to complain about enforcement of the regulations as lending institutions resisted bad lending practices in poor minority communities.

    August 1989

    To deal with the savings & loan fallout of the 1980s, Congress enacted the Financial Institutions Reform Recovery and Enforcement Act. In a move with ominous portent, FIRREA mandated public release of lender evaluations and performance ratings, resulting in added pressure on the banking industry. Such public oversight enabled bullying abuses of community organization groups like ACORN to further influence bank lending practices.


    With the mechanisms in place, the community organizing groups began developing directed strategies to exert more and more pressure on the lending industry in the cloak of complicity with CRA. Community organizer Barack Obama worked closely with ACORN activists. Employing the radical Alinsky intimidation tactics Obama had learned and was teaching — “direct action” — activists crowded bank lobbies, blocked drive-up teller lanes and demonstrated at the homes of bankers to browbeat risky lending in poor and minority communities. Those who resisted were accused of racism to the media and government officials.

    The agitators could now stall or hijack bank mergers by filing complaints of non-compliance against the institutions. Lawsuits alleging redlining and racism began flooding the court system. With the prospect of expansions and mergers threatened, banks settled cases and, significantly, increasingly made loans they would not have normally made. The net effect, as ACORN litigation increased, was that credit standards lowered.

    Initially the GSEs resisted purchasing these risky mortgages but eventually the Clinton Administration instructed them to substantially increase the percentage of these mortgages in their portfolios. The government-backed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac of the Clinton reforms became “a feeding trough,” in the phrase of Peter Ferrara.

    The poor communities and their exploitive leaders benefited from the capitalization with a surge of homeownership, at least on the surface. Wall Street benefited from increased sales of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and guaranteed mortgage-backed securities, as the housing market benefited from new capital channeled from Fannie and Freddie. And the GSE heads profited, with political support in Washington in the form of campaign contributions.

    In the period 1989-2008, topping the list of recipients of contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, Sen. Dodd (D-Connecticut), who received $165,400. Second on the list is Sen. Obama (D-Illinois), receiving $126,349 with only three years in the Senate. Rep. Frank (D-Massachusetts), received $42,350.

    February 1990

    Madeline Talbott, a well-known radical ACORN leader and banking industry agitator, challenged the merger of a Chicago thrift, Bell Federal Savings and Loan Association, who responded that they were being bullied into irresponsible “affirmative-action lending policy.”


    ACORN interfered with a House Banking Committee meeting for two days protesting a move to bring CRA reform.


    Enforcement of CRA was “sporadic,” as the Washington Times notes, until a Federal Reserve Bank of Boston study asserted that there were “substantially higher denial rates for black and Hispanic applicants than for white applicants.” Co-author Lynn Browne was approached by co-author Alicia Munnell to do the study because “community activists were complaining that mortgage loans were not being made in minority communities.”

    According to the Times, however, “the study had mishandled statistics on minority default rates. When the errors were accounted for, the same study showed no evidence that nonwhite mortgage applicants were being discriminated against.”

    Frank Quaratiello, writing in the Boston Herald, cites Stan Liebowitz, “My guess is that they were interested in finding a particular result.” Said Liebowitz, “Richard Syron was head of the Boston Fed at the time. He went on to be the head of Freddie Mac. They were looking for mortgage discrimination and they found it.”

    According to Quaratiello, Syron became Freddie Mac CEO and chairman in 2003 and “faced increasing pressure to buy up more and more risky mortgages, some of which the Boston Fed’s guide had, in effect, served to legitimize.” Regarding Syron’s total compensation in 2007 of $18.3 million, Liebowitz reportedly quipped, “Nice reward for presiding over unprofessional research behavior, bankrupting Freddie Mac and crippling our financial system, all in the name of politically correct lending.”

    September 1992

    The Chicago Tribune described the ACORN agenda as “affirmative action lending.” And, writes Kurtz, “ACORN was issuing fact sheets bragging about relaxations of credit standards that it had won on behalf of minorities.”

    October 1992

    Congress, enacting the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992, allowed legislation to “amend and extend certain laws relating to housing and community development.” The Act created the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) within HUD to “ensure that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are adequately capitalized and operating safely.” It also “established HUD-imposed housing goals for financing of affordable housing and housing in central cities and other rural and underserved areas.”

    Rep. Jim Leach (R-Iowa) warned about the impending danger non-regulated GSEs posed. As the Washington Post reports, his concern was that Congress was “hamstringing” the regulator. Complaint was that OFHEO was a “weak regulator.” Leach worried that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were changing “from being agencies of the public at large to money machines for the stockholding few.”

    Rep. Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts) countered, as the Post reports, “the companies served a public purpose. They were in the business of lowering the price of mortgage loans.”

    September 1993

    The Chicago Sun-Times reports an initiative led by ACORN’s Talbott with five area lenders “participating in a $55 million national pilot program with affordable-housing group ACORN to make mortgages for low- and moderate-income people with troubled credit histories.” Kurtz notes that the initiative included two of her former targets, Bell Federal Savings and Avondale Federal Savings, who had apparently capitulated under pressure.

    July 1994

    Represented by Obama and others, Plaintiffs filed a class action lawsuit alleging that Citibank had “intentionally discriminated against the Plaintiffs on the basis of race with respect to a credit transaction,” calling their action “racial discrimination and discriminatory redlining practices.”

    November 1994

    President Clinton addresses homeownership: “I think we all agree that more Americans should own their own homes, for reasons that are economic and tangible and reasons that are emotional and intangible but go to the heart of what it means to harbor, to nourish, to expand the American dream. . . . I am determined to see that you have the opportunity and together we can make that opportunity for the young families of our country. I am committed to a new and unprecedented partnership between industry leaders and community leaders and Government to recommit our Nation to the idea of homeownership and to create more homeowners than ever before.”

    June 1995

    Republicans had won control of Congress and planned CRA reforms. The Clinton Administration, however, allied with Rep. Frank, Sen. Kennedy (D-Massachusetts) and Rep. Waters (D-California), did an end-around by directing HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo to inject GSEs into the subprime mortgage market.

    As Kurtz notes,”ACORN had come to Congress not only to protect the CRA from GOP reforms but also to expand the reach of quota-based lending to Fannie, Freddie and beyond.” What resulted was the broadening of the “acceptability of risky subprime loans throughout the financial system, thus precipitating our current crisis.”

    The administration announced the bold new homeownership strategy which included monumental loosening of credit standards and imposition of subprime lending quotas. HUD reported that President Clinton had committed “to increasing the homeownership rate to 67.5 percent by the year 2000.” The plan was “to reduce the financial, information, and systemic barriers to homeownership” which was “amplified by local partnerships at work in over 100 cities.”

    Kurtz concludes, “Urged on by ACORN, congressional Democrats and the Clinton administration helped push tolerance for high-risk loans through every sector of the banking system — far beyond the sort of banks originally subject to the CRA. So it was the efforts of ACORN and its Democratic allies that first spread the subprime virus from the CRA to Fannie and Freddie and thence to the entire financial system. Soon, Democratic politicians and regulators actually began to take pride in lowered credit standards as a sign of ‘fairness’ — and the contagion spread.”

    Attorney General Janet Reno, with a number of bank lending discrimination settlements already, sternly announces, “We will tackle lending discrimination wherever it appears.” With the new policy in full force, “No loan is exempt; no bank is immune.” “For those who thumb their nose at us, I promise vigorous enforcement,” reiterated Reno.


    HUD Secretary Cuomo said “GSE presence in the subprime market could be of significant benefit to lower-income families, minorities, and families living in underserved areas . . .”


    By falsifying signatures on Fannie Mae accounting transactions, $200 million in expenses was shifted from 1998 to later periods, thereby triggering $27.1 million in bonuses for top executives. James A. Johnson received $1.932 million; Franklin D. Raines received $1.11 million; Lawrence M. Small received $1.108 million; Jamie S. Gorelick received $779,625; Timothy Howard received $493,750; Robert J. Levin received $493,750.

    April 1998

    HUD announced a $2.1 billion settlement with AccuBanc Mortgage Corp. for alleged discrimination against minority loan applicants. The funds would provide poor families with down payments and low interest mortgages. Announcing the Accubank settlement, Secretary Cuomo said, “discrimination isn’t always that obvious. Sometimes more subtle but in many ways more insidious, an institutionalized discrimination that’s hidden behind a smiling face.”

    Before the camera, Cuomo admitted the mandate amounted to “affirmative action” lending that would result in a “higher default rate.” The institution would “take a greater risk on these mortgages, yes; to give families mortgages who they would not have given otherwise, yes; they would not have qualified but for this affirmative action on the part of the bank, yes. It is by income, and is it also by minorities? Yes. . . . With the 2.1 billion, lending that amount in mortgages which will be a higher risk, and I’m sure there will be a higher default rate on those mortgages than on the rest of the portfolio.”

    May 1999

    The LA Times reports that African Americans homeownership is increasing three times as fast as that of whites, with Latino homeowners is growing five times as fast, attributing the growth to breathing “the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act.” This breath of “life” mandated that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy mortgages with deviant down-payments and debt-to-income ratios which allowed lenders to approve mortgages for lower-income families that would have been denied otherwise.

    By now all pretense had disappeared, lending practices were based upon concerns of discrimination in the banking system regardless the consequences. The administration threatened to veto a bill passed by the Senate which had “shortsightedly voted to retrench” CRA, as the advocative Times put it.

    Under pressure, Fannie Mae was resisting increased targeting, arguing that the result would be more loan defaults. Barry Zigas, heading Fannie Mae’s low-income efforts, argued, “There is obviously a limit beyond which [we] can’t push [the banks] to produce,” the Times reported.

    Fall of 1999

    Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers warned, “Debates about systemic risk should also now include government-sponsored enterprises, which are large and growing rapidly.”

    September 1999

    With pressure from the Clinton Administration, Fannie Mae eased credit requirements on loans it would purchase from lenders, making it easier for banks to lend to borrowers unqualified for conventional loans. Raines explained that “there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market,” reported the New York Times.

    With this action, Fannie Mae put itself at substantial risk in the event of an economic downturn. “From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,” warned Peter Wallison. “If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.” The danger was known.

    September 1999

    A study by Freddie Mac, confirming earlier Federal Reserve and FDIC studies, contradicts race discrimination arguments for CRA. The study found that African-Americans with annual incomes of $65-$75,000 have on average worse credit records than whites making under $25,000, showing that the difficulty in qualifying was not because of race but because of bad credit records. The Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas accordingly entitled a paper “Red Lining or Red Herring?”


    The National Community Reinvestment Coalition instructed on how to exploit the new CRA regulations, “Timely comments can have a strong influence on a bank’s CRA rating.” NCRC asserted, “To avoid the possibility of a denied or delayed application, lending institutions have an incentive to make formal agreements with community organizations.” That is, the mere threat to intervene in the CRA review process had equipped the ACORN groups for the massive shakedown.

    Moreover, ACORN had been given a compelling incentive, as CRA allowed the organizations to collect a fee from the banks for their services in marketing the loans. The Senate Banking Committee had estimated that, as a result of CRA, $9.5 billion had gone to pay for services and salaries of the organizers.

    Winter 2000

    City Journal warned that the Clinton administration had turned CRA into “a vast extortion scheme against the nation’s banks,” committing $1 trillion for mortgages and development projects, most of it funneled through the community organizers.

    March 2000

    Rep. Richard Baker (R-Louisiana) proposed a bill to reform Fannie and Freddie’s oversight in a House Subcommittee on Capital Markets.

    Rep. Frank (D-Massachusetts) dismissed the idea, saying concerns about the two were “overblown” and that there was “no federal liability there whatsoever.”

    Treasury Undersecretary Gary Gensler testified in favor of GSE regulation. He argued that the bill would promote private market discipline, increase transparency and preserve market competition, reducing the potential for subsidized competitors to distort financial markets.

    Fannie Mae spokesmen responded by calling the testimony “inept,” “irresponsible,” and “unprofessional.”

    Wallison of the American Enterprise Institute testified to the subcommittee that the bill was “a milestone in Congressional efforts to gain control of the Government Sponsored Enterprises.” He added that the “political courage and stamina that was required to introduce this bill and to continue to press it forward cannot be overstated.” He emphasized that the bill was only an “interim step in the necessary process of dismantling the GSEs and eliminating both their threat to the taxpayers and to the private financial sector of our economy.”

    Wallison explained why Fannie and Freddie “pose a serious problem for both the public and private sectors.” First, they contain an inherent contradiction. “It is a shareholder-owned company, with the fiduciary obligation to maximize profits, and a government-chartered and empowered agency with a public mission. It should be obvious that it cannot achieve both objectives. If it maximizes profits, it will fail to perform its government mission to its full potential. If it performs its government mission fully, it will fail to maximize profits.”

    He sounded an alarm on a “vicious and dangerous cycle.” “Fannie and Freddie must grow in order to maintain their profitability and hence their high stock prices, but there is no countervailing check on their growth – no effective competition, no required government approvals, and no fear in the financial markets that there is any risk associated with financing this growth. Moreover, their fiduciary obligations to their shareholders require them to exploit their subsidy to the fullest extent possible. These are agencies that are – in the fullest sense of the phrase – out of control.”

    Congressional Democrats and GSE representatives vigorously attacked any such criticism. “We think that the statements evidence a contempt for the nation’s housing and mortgage markets,” rebuffed Sharon McHale, Freddie Mac spokeswoman. Congressional Democrats and GSE representatives prevailed.

    June 2000

    Fred L. Smith Jr., writing in Investor’s Business Daily, recalls testifying before the House Financial Services Committee that GSE “special privileges create a serious hazard to the market, to taxpayers [and] to the economy.” He warned that these GSEs were “strange organizations, neither private-sector fish nor political-sector fowl” and that “as a result, no one is quite sure how these entities should be evaluated or held accountable.” These new debt portfolios “will certainly increase the likelihood of a Fannie-Freddie default.”

    Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-Pennsylvania): “Mr. Smith, that is almost a fallacious argument,” adding that rapid growth of GSE debt holdings was nothing to worry about as it simply reflected “inflation and the growth of population. “Everything, proportionately, is that much larger.”

    Rep. Marge Roukema (R-New Jersey): “very few banks or S&Ls could, even in this day and age, even now, meet the stress-testing requirements which Fannie and Freddie are required to meet.”

    Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-New York) regarding the Treasury Department line of credit: “It is really symbolic, it is obsolete, it has never been used.” “Would you explain why it would be important to repeal something that seems to be of little use?”

    Smith: “as long as the pipeline is there, it is like it is very expandable. . . . It is only $2 billion today. It could be $200 billion tomorrow.”

    Because of Democrat obfuscation, Smith’s “tomorrow” arrived in 2008 when Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson put Fannie and Freddie into conservatorship.

    April 2001

    Fiscal Year 2002 Budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is “a potential problem,” because “financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity,” says a White House release.

    July 2001

    Subcommittee hearing on a bill proposed by Rep. Baker to transfer supervisory and regulatory authority over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and abolish the OFHEO.

    Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-Pennsylvania) responded: “This bill would dramatically restructure the current regulatory system for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In my opinion, it also represents a solution in search of a problem. Nearly a decade ago, Congress created a rational, reasonable, and responsive system for supervising GSE activities, and that system with two regulators is operating increasingly effectively. H.R. 1409 would unfortunately interrupt this continual progress.”

    March 2002

    Business Week interview with Fannie Mae Vice-Chairman Jamie Gorelick about the prospects for the coming year:

    Gorelick: “we are expecting a very, very strong 2002.”

    Gorelick: “We believe we are managed safely. . . . Fannie Mae is among the handful of top-quality institutions. . . . . And we have consistently exceeded every standard that the examiners have set for us.”

    May 2002

    In an OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, the President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    February 2003

    OFHEO reports that “although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations . . . the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them,” warning that unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market, according to a White House release.


    Rep. Richard Baker (R-Louisiana), chairman of the House Financial Services subcommittee with GSE oversight over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, was informed by OFHEO “on the salaries paid to executives at both companies,” according to the Washington Post. Reportedly, “Fannie Mae threatened to sue Baker if he released it, he recalled. Fearing the expense of a court battle, he kept the data secret for a year.” “The political arrogance exhibited in their heyday, there has never been before or since a private entity that exerted that kind of political power,” he said.

    June 2003

    Freddie Mac reported it had understated its profits by $6.9 billion. OFHEO director Armando Falcon Jr. requested that the White House audit Fannie Mae.

    July 2003

    Sens. Chuck Hagel (R-Nebraska), Elizabeth Dole (R-North Carolina) and John Sununu (R-New Hampshire) introduced legislation to address Regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The bill was blocked by Democrats.

    September 2003

    In an interview with Ron Insana for CNN Money, Rep. Baker warned, “I have concerns that if appropriate resources aren’t allocated for internal risk management, the consequences will be far more severe than just a real estate slowdown. The losses would fall quickly through the capital these companies have and down to shareholders and taxpayers. These companies have some of the lowest capital margins of any financial institution in the nation, yet, at the same time, they are two of the largest. The concern is that if something doesn’t work out the way they predict, the American taxpayer could be called on to pay off the debt in some sort of bailout.”

    The New York Times reports that the Administration recommended “the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago,” calling for new supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by the Treasury Department. Reportedly, Congressional Democrats “fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.”

    Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies that Congress enact “legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises” and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements, says a White House release.

    Rep. Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts): “I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis. That is, in my view, the two government sponsored enterprises we are talking about here, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not in a crisis. . . . I do not think at this point there is a problem with a threat to the Treasury. . . . I believe that we, as the Federal Government, have probably done too little rather than too much to push them to meet the goals of affordable housing and to set reasonable goals.

    Rep. Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts): “These two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis. . . . The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

    Rep. Melvin Watt (D-North Carolina): “I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing.”

    October 2003

    Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

    November 2003

    Council of the Economic Advisers Chairman Greg Mankiw warned, “The enormous size of the mortgage-backed securities market means that any problems at the GSEs matter for the financial system as a whole. This risk is a systemic issue also because the debt obligations of the housing GSEs are widely held by other financial institutions. The importance of GSE debt in the portfolios of other financial entities means that even a small mistake in GSE risk management could have ripple effects throughout the financial system,” from a White House release.

    Mankiw explains that any “legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk.” To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have “broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards” and “receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE,” says a White House release.

    February 2004

    Fiscal Year 2005 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: “The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore . . . should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator,” reports a White House release.

    Mankiw cautions Congress to “not take [the financial market's] strength for granted.” Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by “ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator,” says a White House release.

    June 2004

    Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying “We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System,” the White House reports.

    September 2004

    OFHEO reported that Fannie Mae and CEO Raines had manipulated its accounting to overstate its profits. Congress and the Bush administration sought strong new regulation and authority to put the GSEs under conservatorship if necessary. As the Washington Post reports, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac responded by orchestrating a major campaign “by traditional allies including real estate agents, home builders and mortgage lenders. Fannie Mae ran radio and television ads ahead of a key Senate committee meeting, depicting a Latino couple who fretted that if the bill passed, mortgage rates would go up.” Again, GSE pressure prevailed.

    October 2004

    Rep. Baker again warned about the coming crisis in the Wall Street Journal: “Then there’s the lesson of a company, Frankenstein-like, seemingly grown so powerful that it can intimidate and arrogantly flout all accountability to the very government that created it.”

    Baker adds, “Although their bonds bear the disclaimer ‘not backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government,’ the market does not believe it and looks right past the companies’ risk strategies to the taxpayers’ pockets.”

    In a subcommittee testimony, Democrats vehemently reject regulation of Fannie Mae in the face of dire warning of a Fannie Mae oversight report. A few of them, Black Caucus members in particular, are very angry at the OFHEO Director as they attempt to defend Fannie Mae and protect their CRA extortion racket.

    Chairman Baker (R-Louisiana): “It is indeed a very troubling report, but it is a report of extraordinary importance not only to those who wish to own a home, but as to the taxpayers of this country who would pay the cost of the clean up of an enterprise failure. . . . The analysis makes clear that more resources must be brought to bear to ensure the highest standards of conduct are not only required, but more importantly, they are actually met.”

    Rep. Maxine Waters (D-California): “Through nearly a dozen hearings where, frankly, we were trying to fix something that wasn’t broke.”

    Rep. Maxine Waters (D-California): “Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and particularly at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines.”

    Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-New York): “And as well as the fact that I’m just pissed off at OFHEO, because if it wasn’t for you I don’t think that we’d be here in the first place, and now the problem that we have and that we’re faced with is: maybe some individuals who wanted to do away with GSEs in the first place, you’ve given them an excuse to try to have this forum so that we can talk about it and maybe change the, uh, the direction and the mission of what the GSEs had, which they’ve done a tremendous job. There’s been nothing that was indicated that’s wrong, you know, with uh Fannie Mae. Freddie Mac has come up on its own. And the question that then presents is the competence that, that, that, that your agency has, uh, with reference to, uh, uh, deciding and regulating these GSEs. Uh, and so, uh, I wish I could sit here and say that I’m not upset with you, but I am very upset because, you know, what you do is give, you know, maybe giving any reason to, as Mr. Gonzales said, to give someone a heart surgery when they really don’t need it.”

    Rep. Ed Royce (R-California): “In addition to our important oversight role in this committee, I hope that we will move swiftly to create a new regulatory structure for Fannie Mae, for Freddie Mac, and the federal home loan banks.”

    Rep. Lacy Clay (D-Missouri): “This hearing is about the political lynching of Franklin Raines.”

    Rep. Ed Royce (R-California): “There is a very simple solution. Congress must create a new regulator with powers at least equal to those of other financial regulators, such as the OCC or Federal Reserve.”

    Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-New York): “What would make you, why should I have confidence? Why should anyone have confidence, and uh, in, in you as a regulator at this point?”

    Armando Falcon, OFHEO Director: “Sir, Congressman, OFHEO did not improperly apply accounting rules. Freddie Mac did. OFHEO did not fail to manage earnings properly. Freddie Mac did. So this isn’t about the agency engaging in improper conduct. It’s about Freddie Mac.”

    Rep. Christopher Shays (R-Connecticut): “And we passed Sarbanes-Oxley, which was a very tough response to that, and then I realized that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac wouldn’t even come under it. They weren’t under the ‘34 act, they weren’t under the ‘33 act, they play by their own rules, and I and I’m tempted to ask how many people in this room are on the payroll of Fannie Mae, because what they do is they basically hire every lobbyist they can possibly hire. They hire some people to lobby and they hire some people not to lobby so that the opposition can’t hire them.”

    Rep. Artur Davis (D-Alabama): “So the concern that I have is you’re making very specific, what you have correctly acknowledged, broad and categorical judgments about the management of this institution, about the willfulness of practices that may or may not be in controversy. You’ve imputed various motives to the people running the organization. You went to the board and put a 48-hour ultimatum on them without having any specific regulatory authority to put that kind of ultimatum on ‘em. Uh, that sounds like some kind of an invisible line has been crossed.”

    Rep. Christopher Shays (R-Connecticut): “Fannie Mae has manipulated, in my judgment, OFHEO for years. And for OFHEO to finally come out with a report as strong as it is, tells me that’s got to be the minimum not the maximum.”

    Rep. Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts): “Uh, I, this, you, you, you seem to me saying, ‘Well, these are in areas which could raise safety and soundness problems.’ I don’t see anything in your report that raises safety and soundness problems.”

    Rep. Maxine Waters (D-California): “Under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines, everything in the 1992 Act has worked just fine. In fact, the GSEs have exceeded their housing goals. What we need to do today is to focus on the regulator, and this must be done in a manner so as not to impede their affordable housing mission, a mission that has seen innovation flourish from desktop underwriting to 100% loans.”

    Rep. Lacy Clay (D-Missouri): “I find this to be inconsistent and a and a rush to judgment. I get the feeling that the markets are not worried about the safety and soundness of Fannie Mae as OFHEO says that it is, but of course the markets are not political.”

    Rep. Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts): “But I have seen nothing in here that suggests that the safety and soundness are at issue, and I think it serves us badly to raise safety and soundness as kind of a general shibboleth when it does not seem to me to be an issue.”

    Rep. Don Manzullo (R-Illinois): “Mr. Raines, 1.1 million bonus and a $526,000 salary. Jamie Gorelick, $779,000 bonus on a salary of 567,000. This is, what you state on page eleven is nothing less than staggering.”

    Rep. Don Manzullo (R-Illinois): “The 1998 earnings per share number turned out to be $3.23 and 9 mills, a result that Fannie Mae met the EPS maximum payout goal right down to the penny.”

    Rep. Don Manzullo (R-Illinois): “Fannie Mae understood the rules and simply chose not to follow them that if Fannie Mae had followed the practices, there wouldn’t have been a bonus that year.”

    Rep. Christopher Shays (R-Connecticut): “And you have about 3% of your portfolio set aside. If a bank gets below 4%, they are in deep trouble. So I just want you to explain to me why I shouldn’t be satisfied with 3%?”

    Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae CEO: “Because banks don’t, there aren’t any banks who only have multifamily and single-family loans.”

    Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae CEO: “These assets are so riskless that their capital for holding them should be under 2%.”

    January 2005-July 2006

    Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Nebraska), co-sponsored by Sens. Sununu and Dole and later Sen. McCain, re-introduced legislation to address GSE regulation.

    “The bill prohibited the GSEs from holding portfolios, and gave their regulator prudential authority (such as setting capital requirements) roughly equivalent to a bank regulator. In light of the current financial crisis, this bill was probably the most important piece of financial regulation before Congress in 2005 and 2006,” reports the Wall Street Journal.

    Greenspan testified that the size of GSE portfolios “poses a risk to the global financial system. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to bail out the lenders [GSEs] . . . should one get into financial trouble.” He added, “If we fail to strengthen GSE regulation, we increase the possibility of insolvency and crisis . . . We put at risk our ability to preserve safe and sound financial markets in the United States, a key ingredient of support for homeownership.”

    Greenspan warned that if the GSEs “continue to grow, continue to have the low capital that they have, continue to engage in the dynamic hedging of their portfolios, which they need to do for interest rate risk aversion, they potentially create ever-growing potential systemic risk down the road . . . We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk.”

    Bloomberg writes, “If that bill had become law, then the world today would be different. . . . But the bill didn’t become law, for a simple reason: Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee, signaling that this would be a partisan issue. Republicans, tied in knots by the tight Democratic opposition, couldn’t even get the Senate to vote on the matter. That such a reckless political stand could have been taken by the Democrats was obscene even then.”

    April 2005

    Treasury Secretary John Snow again calls for GSE reform, “Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America. . . . Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system,” from a White House release.

    May 2005

    At AEI Online, Wallison warned that “allowing Fannie and Freddie to continue on their present course is simply to create risks for the taxpayers, and to the economy generally, in order to improve the profits of their shareholders and the compensation of their managements. It is a classic case of socializing the risk while privatizing the profit.”

    January 2006

    Chairman Greenspan, in a letter to Sens. Sununu, Hagel and Dole, warned that the GSE practice of buying their own MBS “creates substantial systemic risk while yielding negligible additional benefits for homeowners, renters, or mortgage originators.” He stated, “. . . the GSEs and their government regulator need specific and unambiguous Congressional guidance about the intended purpose and functions of Fannie’s and Freddie’s investment portfolios.”

    March 2006

    Sens. Sununu and Hagel introduced an amendment to a Lobbying Reform Bill directing GAO to study GSE lobbying and requiring HUD to audit the GSEs annually.

    May 2006

    After years of Democrats blocking the legislation, Sens. Hagel, Sununu, Dole and McCain write a letter to Majority Leader William Frist and Chairman Richard Shelby expressing demanding that GSE regulatory reform be “enacted this year” to avoid “the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the Housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.”

    May 2006

    Sen. McCain (R-Arizona) addressed the Senate, “Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were ‘illusions deliberately and systematically created’ by the company’s senior management. . . . Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. . . . OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.”

    McCain stressed, “If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole. I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.”

    April 2007

    Sens. Sununu, Hagel, Dole, and Mel Martinez (R-Florida) re-introduced legislation to improve GSE oversight.

    April 2007

    In “A Nightmare Grows Darker,” the New York Times writes that the “democratization of credit” is “turning the American dream of homeownership into a nightmare for many borrowers.” The “newfangled mortgage loans” called “affordability loans” “represent 60 percent of foreclosures.”

    September 2007

    President Bush: “These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I’ve called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs . . . the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon.”


    The housing bubble began to burst, bad mortgages began to default, and finally the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac portfolios were revealed to be what they were, in collapse. And the testimony is evident as to why. As Wallison noted, “Fannie and Freddie were, I would say, the poster children for corporate welfare.”

    September 2008

    Rep. Arthur Davis, whose testimony is found above in October 2004, now admits Democrats were in error: “Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues I was too slow to appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie. I defended their efforts to encourage affordable homeownership when in retrospect I should have heeded the concerns raised by their regulator in 2004. Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit when it comes to Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong.”

    Today 2008

    The narrative is of another socialist experiment failed, this time a massive federal effort, imperiling the whole US banking industry. Facing this economic disaster, will an informed American people put their trust Obama’s socialist ideology to bring remedy? To do so is to trust in an acetylene torch to put out the fire.

  173. If it wasn’t for TARP and the stimulus plan there wouldn’t be a functioning economy that would provide an $80,000 a year job for your son, we would be entering a Depression.

    Without taxes a relatively safe, functioning and sophisticated city like New York couldn’t exist. It would be like one of those awful ‘dead cities’ we find in the midwest and south with massive crime rates, no public transport system and little culture.

    He is privileged to live in such a city, if he wants to save some money he could move to Cleveland or Dallas

  174. Ambrose you are a phony. You are masquerading as a normal person but you are actually a grotesquely skewed commie. That is very boring. Your boring comrades control even these highly censored “opiono sites” and give word bums like you a lot of space where you puke out great draughts of leftist garbage. As usual a number of media zombies on here eat your garbage, so I guess its a food chain for fools. You even have a pic of yourself, and it too is a parody of a leftist wanna-be pretending to “needing some info on this Obama is a socilaist thang” Uh Huh
    There are people on this site that reek much worse than you though. They are parodies of homo sapiens (homo maybe) like that idiot who wrote about his cat by using sh*t and f*ck to fill in for all missing brain gaps. Ashamed to sign his name it was M175rs73Iam shit…or something like that. Yet this site has accused my prose of being “bad” and “evil.” What about that nasty obsceme language that I here report? Only commies are allowed to use foul language on here.
    You know what,. I think that cat zombie is you Ambrose. From the tilt of your vacuous prose, I’d say you are this Forum’s Socialist Commissar’s long lost hair lipped son.Eh?

  175. It’s hilarious to hear rich conservatives whine about not being as rich as they could be if they didn’t have to pay taxes. Most people who have spent their lives working as hard as they can will never have the resources to have to worry about not being able to afford a beautiful apartment in Manhattan in the first place. I don’t think I personally know anyone making 80000 dollars a year, nor do I know anyone who doesn’t work hard, long hours.

  176. A little factual history fo you.

    We do not have a Capitalist System. We have a politically regulted System.
    The Great ’29 Depression was caused by the Federal Reserve System when the held a Tight Money Policy. People / Businesses couldn’t borrow any money. Things Colapsed.

    What caused the 2008-09 “Depression”…. Two Names.
    Alan Greenspan kept short term interest rates too low. This allowed for every Tom, Dick, Harry and Jane to borrow short term money for long term objectives. People and businesses bought more than they could afford under normal circumstances.

    Add Barney Franks (“Fife”) to the mix and you have Government telling Banks that if they didn’t lend to these “poor people”, that Government would regulate the “hell” out of Banks and force lending.

    So, we’ve got Greenspan low interest rates and Frank forced lending. These two combined to create s sunami of lending. Short tem rates had to go up only a little before the monthly payments on ARM’s shot up and people/businesses couldn’t handle the payments…… defaults… etc.
    This entire thing is government caused and they’re putting the blame on Capitalism.

    You please identify the two capitalists who caused this? You can’t because there isn’t any.

  177. This country my forefathers came here (from England), fought and died for throughout it’s short history. Any man who advocates for anything less than what the founding fathers had in mind for us is an utter fool and understands neither Soverign Rights grated us, nor how far we have fallen from our standing as free men. Waken from your slumber and your rights as free men or be lost as slave’s to the future.

  178. Written by a conservative. This is full of bromides, lies, misrepresentations. Education, hard work and opportunity for all are American values that do not belong to ‘conservatives’ no matter how often you say it. They belong to all of us equally. It falls to those who do not call themselves conservative to make sure there is equal opportunity, that there is education available for all and to make sure there are jobs for all. It is conservatives who advocate policies that send jobs overseas, that do not fund education and it is conservatives who resist laws and regulations that protect opportunity and prevent discrimination. You are selfish, self-centered, short-sighted people. Health care has been a huge drag on our economy, hurting individuals as well as businesses and their ability to compete. But your selfishness prevents you from seeing the practicality of dealing with the problem. You are afraid it may help some people that you consider undeserving, therefore nothing gets fixed for anyone.
    Things cost money. Running a government costs money. Building a society that people want to live in costs money. Living in the USA costs money. If you really can’t stand paying for the opportunities available to you here, go live somewhere else where you won’t have to pay for the privilege. This is what we call unAmerican.
    You care only for you. I bet you live in some walled community keeping you safe from those wicked not-chosen people. This would explain your condescending attitude to your own son ( assuming that is not just another lie). I am proud to pay my share of taxes, always have been. I resent SS sometimes and sales taxes sometimes but never federal or state tax.

  179. I can’t remember it exactly, but I think the phrase goes, “Conservatives are former liberals who have been sobered up by reality.”

  180. ask your son how come socialism didn’t work in the Soviet Union, still doesn’t work in China (where there are still hundreds of millions of poor people), in Venezuela (I’ve been there), Cuba, North Korea, etc. (I have first hand reports from friends and missionaries in those lands).

    ask him also how come most poor in the U.S. would be the envy of what is real poverty in above-named countries.

    by the way I too know something about France and their system: I was born and raised there. I came here at the age of 22, with 2 suitcases and $80 in my pocket. In my opinion, after having traveled and lived in many countries, I still think the U.S. is a pretty good place to be. Provided the socialists/democrats don’t wreck it!

  181. Whats 5 to 12 trillion dollars? Shoot i think i got that in my couch. Im just proud we have our first half Caucasian half African American president, now thats by bypartisanship.

  182. maybe they should just have voltaire as a consultant and a king alongside, or maybe it should be mandatory; that congress and the government, see psychiatrist on a daily basis. because that would also require more payment and more maybe money itself is the problem? proof? 1 teaspoon of dark matter would bankrupt the united states instantly, but if we could afford it; some say we could become capable of interstellar travel. more proof? hydrocephulus surgery cost millions, and often requires multiple surgeries, that arent guaranteed to save your life? more proof? look up the history of rome, and other places, anglo saxons and barbarian vikings. maybe falling of economies and reforming of civilizations is a doom? scared? they should smack themselves on the heads because congress and so are the ones in the hot drivers seat.

  183. Y’know I get really tired of the rich complaining about not being rich enough while half the industry in my town gets shut down and more and more people here can’t find jobs. They can’t feed their families and get kicked out of their homes and Boo-Hoo! the rich kid only makes $80,000 a year. Why is it the people who make the most money complain the loudest when the country might need some of their stash?

  184. It feels very good to see that there are still some sensible people, not consumed by the sensationalist media or “Obama-love”, who can do the simple math (while involving large, perhaps unimaginable numbers) to figure out the mess this American Idol of a President is putting us in. I feel very alone on most days. Most everyone else is too busy commenting on what he looks like with his shirt off or how well he swats a fly.

    And for the record if it matters I was a Clinton through Gore supporter, and was just as disgusted with Bush’s spending frenzies.

    When are we going to get a President that doesn’t act like a college kid with a new credit card??

  185. Alan Greenspan predicted in 1996.

  186. Look GingerGirl and Keith, most of the people who would benefit from the health care reforms would NOT be the faulty stereotypes that you two mention!!! It would be the hardworking people like my father, who is a retired United States Marine – whoorah – and lost his job in this crap economy. Now, he has hurt his arm badly but cannot go to the hospital because he has no insurance!!! What nonsense is this??? When he worked damned hard his whole life to support his family and serve his country and suffers with his elbow day in and day out!!!

    And at least a half dozen of my friends whose parents lost their jobs due to the crap economy, what about them?? Are they socialists for believing that after giving 40 or 50 years to America they should not be thrown out like garbage? 40 years of raising good hardworking, striving children like myself, who believe in the dream and are in graduate school or working to feed our own children! Yes, at least a half dozen that I know personally whose “lazy” parents, after 30+years at a job were fired! And now we’re all scrambling trying to figure out how we’re gonna provide for our parents who have no more retirement funds (cause they have to live off of them now!) as well as our own children and maybe pay off outrageous student loan debt in our lifetime…


    I don’t disagree that your father or anyone else should face this issue. It’s not his fault he lost his job. For that matter it wasn’t my fault I lost my job either, but I have been unemployed since Feb. There is a deeper issue here that many people are not seeing because they are in your situation and need help now, not when the country resets and we all get back to work.
    The recession in large part is was caused by the illegal alien workforce in my opinion. They work for sub min-wage and are paid under the table. Those that are paid as documented workers that are illegal and using a bogus SSN are just as guilty. The dept of taxation / US Treasury have specific guide lines for tax money that’s collected from incorrect SSN numbers. It has to sit in an account until they can verify who’s taxes it should be applied to. Of course with a person that is an illegal alien, that would be never. So the pay gets taxed, but the government can’t spend the money for anything. Now, another issue that’s created by the Mexican’s specifically is there living arrangements. The live 15 to a 3 bedroom apartment. Instead of 5 apartments, here again, keeping the money they are making out of the local economies. They do this for a reason, which is the third issue. Even with a low paying job, their expenses are very low, due to the community living. They take all there extra money, which is about 60 cents on the dollar of their income, and send it to Mexico.

    Now with the housing boom that we went through, there were lots of Mexican illegals, and legal immigrants as well, that were building houses. The housing boom was caused by something else though, something darker. That was the government. Google the fair housing act, and read up on it. In it’s third edition, it basically forced the large lenders to lend money to people that couldn’t pay it back. There are people that argue this with me, but after they tried to get my step brother, that was making 27000 a year to sign for a 250000 house, and they were perfectly willing to sell it to him, there is no argument. He didn’t have, and probably never will have a job where he makes enough to pay for a house like that.
    And before ANYONE tries to say that’s a failure of capitalism, no capitalist in his right mind would underwrite that sort of loan.

  187. I have been working since age 16. I was injured in Dec ’08 and laid off in Mar ’09. I have been denied access to any and all “social programs” including unemployment because I don’t match any of the definitions and I’m too young for Social Security. Because of my injury, I have been unable to do much but read again. I am amazed at the amount of time people have to read and write this crap.
    While you are “interacting” the government is passing cap and trade which will raise the cost of electricity to a point where you can’t afford to heat your “all electric” house much less be on your computer. I know. I’m an electrician and I’ve worked at coal fired power plants.
    The moron in charge of your homeowners association will be the same guy running your “health board” when Obamacare becomes law.
    The best form of government is no government at all.
    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    Self government occurs at traffic lights that are inoperative. Suddenly, people start taking turns driving through the intersection.
    I’m selling my house, my stuff, and moving.
    When I get to my next location, if you knock on my door it means you got past the barbed wire and dog and I get to be absolute with you.
    “There is no sanctuary.”

  188. Hey, all you Gen X,Y.Z, etc……We smoked all the dope, drank all the booze, grabbed all the money, raised all the hell, had a blazed party, had good time disease free recreational sex, and will have the last laugh on all of you “Socialist” wannabees when your new “Messiah” , Mr. O, screws up this country and your future! Dudes and Dudettes…you wanted him, you got him! Me, I’m gonna ride the gravey train for whatever time I have left! Hell, if it gets too bad, there is always the gotterdamerung of a good dope fueled Woodstock that only admits people born before 1964! God. that felt good!

  189. i think obama is a communist, seeking to soon destroy our government, before his term(s) run out. then he can make his new one. poor or otherwise, god protect us from his new one.. thanks bush and also the ass hole senators/ governers….

  190. google this! i heard a vicious media tabloid about a black priest that said obama was the most racist person in power. the reporter tried to have loving rebuttle from the priest; but all the evil priest would say was no sir youd better watch yourselves from barrack.. o

  191. yea speaking of recession just read up on the robberies and mayhem that resulted from th 20′s depression. that was interesting.

  192. Hey man, I used to be a republican and now i’m a hippie and a communist but i’m thinkin about bein an anarchist because the MAN is out to get EVERYBODY and we gotta stay on the run or theyll get us and put ipods in our vains and traak our MOVEMENTS!

  193. i absolutely knew they were going to do that.

  194. Is this the proper quote from Winston Churchill?

    “If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.”

    Can you provide the source?

  195. “tesla” is his elictrical energy cheaper or better than the windmill technology? that dude got burned. we all get burned. it could be a leap forward in technology this is the age. but everything fails, ideas are stolen, forgoten, people are to busy, or it simply cost too much to “invent”, or people wont pay you….

  196. wheres my 401k i need some morefor when im old! :D id also appreciate it if my gf could have a safe surgery for hydrocephulus, and not have only a 50% chance of living through the surgery; according to her doctors, why is that?

  197. DONT VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS! They are a double headed snake! VOTE INDEPENDENT…no matter who they are.

  198. We should not forget that the debt is made of imaginary money, but it is our very real lifetime of sweat the imaginary debt demands.

    End the Fed. Reserve and we can start over. Close the board on this Monopoly Game, and we’ll be fine.

  199. I love it when people, including some of teh commentariat try to blame the Obama deficit and the worldwide crash on Bush. If Bush is responsible for worldwide mayhem, why did the US economy shrink so much less than Japan’s or Germany’s or Britain’s or Spains, or Ireland’s or Russia’s …. Should Bush not then get credit for exporting more misery than he kept over here? If it is a crisis of capitalism, why are the more socialist nations getting hit hardest and those who most recently joined the capitalist club in earnest, India, Turkey, China, Georgia, getting hit the least and places that never signed on, really, like Iran and Russia, getting pummeled so very hard?
    How are the expenses of nationalizing health care and other spending programs that will expand the deficit beyond any bailouts in any way Bush’s fault (as opposed to entitlements expanded or left alone under Bush)? If Bush’s deficits were evil, why are deficits 10 times greater that are not freeing anyone from nightmarish tyrannies OK?

  200. Two year anniversary of someone who HAS predicted this economic meltdown and what is coming: Karl Denninger’s Ticker Forum. Best education in what is happening around. Not good news, but essential.

    2009 predictions:

    Most recent posts:

    10 things you must do:

  201. [...] My Son The Socialist – Confronts Reality | Cincinnatus Blog … [...]

  202. Armando – thank you for a post that shows a lot of research. If nothing else, it surely shows that the Dems, as a party, cannot be trusted any more than the Republicans, and that the melt-down is a shared blame. Time for a third option.
    Eyes on California now. As a Republican state, it seems to be their preference to shaft the defenceless and needy (still Americans in birth), while the “haves” keep having their share. Not something I would be proud of.

  203. Just a few comments form an engineer with an MBA who grew up in Africa and has worked in three continents.

    This argument will get you (us) nowhere. The radical conservatives have convinced themselves that government is evil and will squander their money while the left blames Bush and the Republicans for all that is evil.

    Some thoughts for what they are worth.

    Until the end of last year (and those are the latest figures I have) Germany, a country that calls itself a social market economy with tax rates that would make most Americans gag – was the worlds largest exporter. This with a population of approximately 80 million (for those who had an average US education) that is just a bit more than a third of the population of the US. IMHO there are few more truly socialist countries than the Scandinavians but just look at how their economies are performing compared to the US. Go to and look at the world factbook or the country listings and compare debt ratios and life expectancy or (if you are really brave) look at infant mortality and “happiness” levels on the net. They must be doing something right! In the interests of fairness in the debate, I need to point out that these countries are not very diverse – something that I believe makes it less likely that the benefits get exploited by the anti-social elements.

    Also, to those conservatives who want to kill government, don’t bother, with you r attitude the Red Army will do that for you. Perhaps not next year or the year after but in a few generations the US will have lost so much competitiveness because of the apparent desire of its citizenry to not invest in public infrastructure and education for the masses that it will not be able to offer the Chinese much resistance. Let’s face it, they already own a massive chunk of your government debt – not because they are evil but because they are good investors with a long term vision.

    If the conservatives think that they can run a modern competitive economy without the various levels of government investing in infrastructure and services your country is doomed. What better way than to have public education teach the great common values of freedom, hard work and reward BUT ALSO responibility and respect for the opinion of others. I have seen very little of that during my many visits to the US.

    To the ultra lefties here, yes, Bush got you int o war that many of you now do not want, but that was your fault for not being vigilant and abrogating your right and duty to inform yourselves of what is going on in your own country. The budget deficits did not happen overnight – where were you when the massive amounts of money where transferred into corporate coffers?

    To all of you – stop whining. If you want Pax Americana and a healthy prosperous society where inner city babies have a lower mortality rate than in Cuba – you will have to pay your taxes and expand your productive public infrastructure as well as public services. No corporation is going to invest in public transport or inner city hospitals and soon the H1-Bs from India and China will prefer to stay at home and compete with the poorly educated mass of American workers.

    Please, for the sake of the free world – wake up.

  204. If socialism is so bad, why is it that democratic socialist nations such as Germany & France have less poverty, better healthcare at lower cost, lower crime rates, and in fact lower rates of just about every social problem we can think of? Obama and the democrats are not socialists – not even close. Their policies are considered backwards and regressive by the rest of the developed world, with good reason. Their health care plan will be an expensive, abysmal failure.

    The American system has a very clear function: allow a fantastically wealthy upper-class to thrive at the expense of tens of millions of people at the bottom. In Europe, the rich aren’t quite as rich, and the poor aren’t near as poor. It’s still a basically capitalist system, just has policies more friendly to the average person. And let’s not forget these nations have voter-turnout rates much higher than ours: 70-80% compared to our 40-60%. This is the reason they have family-friendly socialist policies – the people pay attention and vote instead of believing the kind of right-wing propaganda put forth on this blog.

    Got some bad news for you: hundreds of millions of people in Europe and elsewhere, with brains, are quite liberal. They are also enjoying things like free health and daycare, while American families go bankrupt in record numbers. Who’s brainless, again? Which country’s citizens can’t do basic math, find the US on a map, or write complete sentences? Remind me again, which country is both stupidest and most right-wing?

  205. Those who rail against the pervasive influence of greed in our capitalist system fail to understand its true purpose. Without greed most modern inventions would not exist, and we would not have computers with which to argue this point. As to general socialist values, the idea that man can exist in absolute equality is absurd. Some will always strive, while others will not. When you attempt to force a more level playing field upon those who strive, their thirst will turn from wealth to power, and from power to absolute power. In the end, all you will have achieved is the death of liberty for all of those you so desperately sought to elevate. “Give me liberty or give me death”

  206. Why can’ you libs understand that corporations do not pay taxes. We the consumer pay. How long do you think they will stay in business by absorbing that expense. Good bye job. Then who pays for your fairytale economics?

  207. [...] Freefall Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Celebrate July 4th with adorable Kodu [...]

  208. America got what she voted for: an inexperienced radical, nurtured and raised up by the thugs of Chicago, mentored by people who hate America, and elected not because of the strength of his character but because of the color of his skin. Geraldine Ferraro said it publicly and was fired from Hillary’s campaign because Hil wanted the black vote. Had Obama been white, he’d been laughed out of the contest during the primaries due to his paper-thin background in the Senate. But nope, the Dems found someone they judged to be supremely “electable”, and now America has what America deserves….as a whole. I personally don’t deserve Obama, nor do 52 million other voters who saw him for what he was..and is.

  209. If you have a roof over your head, food, car, hot water, things aren’t so bad. Lets not worry say your prayers. If your an atheist well don’t believe in science.

  210. Brian, Do you have any idea what socialized medicine is all about. Do you know anyone from these countries? Ask them what is their effective income tax rate, ask then what their VAT rate is ( 24% plus).Ask them what is the cost of living? Ask A person in the UK over 65 who needs dialysis why if he needs it he has to seek treatment in U. S. Visit a hospital on the US Canadian border why they are seeking treatment in a US hospital. Ask the French Government why they are seeking help from the private sector to help with their unsustainable healthcare costs?Why are the Brits and Canadians now allowing private clincs? I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. Please note our system needs an overhaul but this is not the way.

  211. Loved the article, and thought you might like my blog. Check it out at

    Every click helps a young libertarian graduate college!

  212. Why is it that Americans, capitalists, get a hair across their collective ases and start screaming about socialism? It has nothing to do with the fact that we are now in a recession and need new solutions. But hey, obviously our old Republic knows best and this imagined threat of socialism is the real problem tearing this country apart idealogically. Boooo-ring. Maybe we should be working on a more perfect union, maybe exercising real democracy rather than talking about what is neither here nor there.

    By the way, I think socialist countries are lovely and as genuine democracies as our own.

  213. My favorite posts are the ones that take the form, “Obama is terrible, but Bush was bad, so Obama is alright.” Wake up, Democratic morons! This is not football season! Your party is driving the nation to ruin. Would it be so terrible to admit you were wrong? Gosh, if you did so, you’d look like . . . you had more sense than egotism.

  214. This is so spot on and I love the humor!!! If only the zombie followers of Obama would wake up from the Obama Spell.

  215. First off, this better health care system… If socialistic systems are so good, why do a majority of rich Canadians and Europeans come to the United States for treatment? If all the population, where to receive the same level of care free from their state, that the wealthy individuals come to the US to receive. It would bankrupt every one of their health care systems. If we go socialist where will we all go for treatment? Maybe nowhere and that is what has been desired from the beginning.

    The crux of the problem is thinking:
    Free market capitalists believe reason and fare trade rule society. People live with people harmoniously in large part. We go to stores, purchase goods, go to work and make a living. We don’t go into our neighbors house without invitation and when they need something we normally help them to the best of our ability.

    Socialists see the system through different eyes, they see the thief that steals and try to figure out why he stole. They see the person who has to buy hot dogs instead of steaks and ask, why they can’t afford steak. Then they look to equality and say everyone should be equal. Yet the only way to reach equality is control. But the question is who controls?

    That leaves us with two alternatives, that cannot be dismissed. You either love freedom or you want control. All of the socialists when you hear it put so succinctly, your retort is what about the poor and the cripples. And this once again supports the notion of your desire for control by the use of guilt.

    As for the current situation in this country and throughout the world, who has control? Look at your money and possessions; what do you own or earn that the government does not have first right too? What do you have that the government can’t take?

    When you weigh these questions, it is clear who has won. Unfortunately it is not freedom. So you socialists who clamor for more control to negate the problems; look no further than what you have already done. Anymore control will result in further differences between the winners and losers of life’s lottery. But instead of the capitalists we will be yelling at the ruling class.

    At least the capitalists have a semblance of what it means to have freedom.

  216. That Post by Alessandro Anderes Bologna April 21st was fantastic.
    There is no one I have ever heard put it so brilliantly.
    Sign me up for his team.

  217. For those that wish to blame the REPUBLICANS or the DEMOCRATS for the financial disaster upon us consider the following. The US has been practicing deficit spending since 1969 EVERY YEAR!
    The house mof representatives control the US purse strings. If they say NO it doesn’t get spent, unless the PREZ has a slush fund he controls, like Cliinton and 20 billion Mexican loan. Also that Clinton signed both NAFTA and GAT that created that LOUD sucking sound that vacuumed 3 million jobs right out of this country thus reducing the tax base HUGELY. If you are looking for some one to blame find a mirror, unless you voted for the losers in all the elections since 1969. Those people that did not vote gave up the only real freedom they have and helped create this mess. IF you do not know what ALL of your political representatives are for or against you are not soing YOUR job and deserve what you have gotten. I am a LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE with a brain. I am liberal with my manners and conservative with my money. I use my brain to filter out the lies politicains use to get elected. IF you beeilve Obama statements about no tax hikes…etc. consider inflation as a tax created by the government by printing money instead of minting it as the 10th amendment requires. You are living in a time of national and political irrelivance. Control the currency and one DOES NOT NEED TO CONTROL THE GOVERNMENT.

  218. Punitive taxation guarantees that those who deserve the most, get the least. But worse, it means that those who are brought down fund their own execution.

    The best option is to nip it in the bud. Refuse to pay. Not to keep it for yourself, but to prevent it being squandered and sabotage the next generation for a few loaves of bread and circuses on the today.

    Obama is the worst President ever. He is nothing but a test to see if enough of the population will fall for advertising instead of substance and fact. He is the ultimate ‘ab machine’ infomercial. And he proved that over 50% of America really is stupid enough to buy it.

    Too bad their grandchildren will get the bill. Great parents, these Liberals… If their beliefs on that didn’t give it all away, what ever will?

  219. For all the argument of socialism vs capitalism… It’s really a moot point as we have neither, never had, and never will.

    I have NEVER, not one time in my entire life, EVER seen hard work pay off. Mine, or that of someone else.

    Socialism pays to keep people just barely at the poverty line. This also is a failure.

    I have witnessed only 4 things that have ever paid off: Lying, Cheating, Stealing, and Killing. Those who ‘work hard’ at those 4 things are always wealthy. Those who demand others do those for things on their behalf and have it handed to them, also profit handily.

    “Take what you can, give nothing back.” This is the profitable ‘business’ that claims capitalism, but acts piracy.

    I’ve watched it my whole life, and am no ‘young person’ today.

    The wealthy are the ones who forcibly take what you work for and leave you with nothing. Capitalism/Socialism is a distraction, just like Conservative/Liberal. You won’t get rich, like they did, by doing anything other than Lie, Cheat, Steal, or Kill.

    They’re all on the same side, they’re getting you riled up about opposing sets of values that don’t even make sense… How can a Democrat believe in helpless disarmament of the People in the face of so-called Nazi Bush, when only arms could possibly free us from what they describe? I t makes no sense. So you will waste your time having useless debates like this one while they laugh all the way to the bank with YOUR money.

    Remember this the next time you ‘pay your bills.’ who’s bills are they, really? And why in the name of all that is good, are you paying for crap you have absolutely no need for, but have no choice but to pay up, or else………

  220. You better have 5 things to survive this new goverment
    1- beans and rice
    2-bullets, you can have all the guns that you want, its the bullets that obama will take away
    3- at least a gun, so when it comes to the end you can use your last bullet
    4-don’t forget your vitamens, so you wont get skirvey
    5-and alot of hope, That we do survive long enough to elect a new president How many days are left?

  221. ……buy more bullets. Like the Russian’s say, “a little revolution now and then isn’t a bad thing”

  222. I like everything Cincinnatus has said so far, I also find myself totally in agreement with his son. So who doesn’t want to take the easy road if it’s presented to him? I certainly do and have done time and time again. However it hasn’t done me any good at all. It makes you lazy and also makes you feel as if you’re deserving of things you haven’t worked for ( Does this remind anyone of something, what could it possibly be…Ah yes, Socialism. “There ain’t no such thing as a free ride.” Someone will be paying for Obama’s planned evening out of social benefits. I don’t have pockets deep enough for it though. It’s not that I don’t want to help others, but I believe (and I include myself in this) the middle class is drowning in their debt, so Obama piles more on? Does this actually make sense. Think about it…. Please.

  223. Again, I ask a simple question (in response to jJoseph and others): if socialized medicine is SO BAD, why is the US ranked lower in healthiness than all societies who have socialized medicine. If our health care system is better than socialized medicine, why are we the least healthy? It’s pretty hard to argue with these kind of facts. Also, the US spends about twice as much on health care than the next highest spending society. Sure, taxes would go up with socialized medicine, but insurance premiums would DISAPPEAR. Do the math. Who loses with socialism? Only the people at the very top.

  224. Was this poorly written piece of trash worth the hundreds in Adsense payments you made to Google?

    Talk about narcicism. And to the first commentator you might find it interesting to know that Oscar Wilde was anti-authoritarian, socialist.

  225. Hello guy d : I am afraid you have the free market guys all wrong. We are actually suffering from hyperopia. we can see down the road and we know what’s coming.

  226. My brother, a rabid socialist in his 30′s, believes Obama is the saviour of America. But, he is having trouble keeping up with his payments for his new home. He keeps getting a little help from ole Mom and Pop. When his taxes are increased and the Mom & Pop spigot is turned off, will he still praise Obama?

  227. So I think it’s important to recognize and respond to V’s comments; one thing we haven’t looked at has been the detrimental effect of “anti-socialist,” or as congress-folk have put it, “anti-communist,” international policy. Central America was indeed victimized by US greed, and in murderous fashion. In Guatemala, more than 250,000 completely innocent civilians were murdered, and through the training government and later even rebel forces got from US intelligence agencies. We indeed taught them dirty war, and funded the coups that ensued from the ruling class, against democratically elected heads of state, who weren’t that “communist” to begin with, as if that would have been ANY justification!

    I tend to think that as a group of people in the US, we’re alright. We’re usually nice people, even if we make some mistakes. That an ideology should drive us to be capable of these, what I would truly call, war crimes, I say to hell with ideologies, leftist or rightist. Instead of endlessly re-thinking their definitions and our preferences for them, why don’t we re-think our own individual and collective morality. Seriously, this is a really important discussion that gets thrown to the wayside in the US mainstream because most of us haven’t had to deal with alcoholic parents with post-traumatic stress syndrome that is likely to last their entire lives, and the prospect of property theft for our own entire lives (I said theft, and I meant it literally–people illegally taking other people’s land, without asking or paying for it). I haven’t had to deal with any of it, but my second hand experience has taught and continues to teach me volumes.

    Considering how moral and ethical we are is difficult, and cynical types are bored by it. They instead figure that capitalism will deal with their woes by taking advantage of the moral flaw of self interest, which we also tend to forget is a moral flaw in our zeal. Remember that capitalism is destined to eventual and horrible failure if we become unfeeling and immoral. Socialism isn’t going to give us a moral solution, either. When will we as a country start to seek amends for our deeds in Latin America and other regions, not by going into further debt, but by actually lowering our own spending, and relying on honest business (not multi-nationals breaking laws in other countries by hiring the local elite to do the dirty work, then never being prosecuted) to stimulate our economy? Can we survive without dishonest business? If we can’t, do we deserve to survive? If we really want to be good people, let us put our money where our mouth is.

  228. Of course your son is paying a heavy tax bill – that’s because America isn’t socialist. America is a capitalist country (if you haven’t noticed) and ordinary folks’ standards of living are severely restricted as a result. There’s a ‘glass ceiling’ of entrenched inherited privilege and nepotism for those of us unfortunate enough not to have been born into wealth. Your son would be much better off under a socialist system, as would most of the rest of us.

  229. State-controlled socialism isn’t real socialism; it’s a method used by desperate capitalists to keep their overall system – for their profits – intact.

    The organization of which I am a member did indeed forecast this crisis – years ago. You can check the archives of our newspaper, JUSTICE.

    Only a grass-roots movement of the working class can fix this problem. Our entire legacy of Presidents have been pro-big business and Obama is no different.

  230. Great post…how true! See what seeds we have sewn!

  231. Public healthcare.

    Run by the political aristocracy.

    Let me see. Everyone has the right to healthcare. Oh, and by the way, we’re going to ration healthcare. It’s your right … to get nothing. Orwell was spot on.

    It’s happened before. A party member sits at a table and decides who goes to the door on the right and who goes to the door on the left.

    But at least the trains ran on time.

    People don’t always get what they deserve, but they usually deserve what they get.

  232. I find it interesting that in one of the above messages, it is stated that “no one predicted the coming crash”. Apparently, when Ross the boss said we would “hear a giant sucking sound”, you weren’t listening.

    Question, how can a developed economy compete with a under-developed economy. How does a nation that has an 8 dollar an hour minimum wage create a product within its borders to compete with a economy that pays an average of what would be 30 cents or less per hour? To me, the answer is it cannot. I say this based on the transfer of all our crucial manufacturing and other businesses that keep a nation both independent and self sufficient are now in Asia. The investors (todays merchants) in our national businesses were quick to see more profit for themselves in the lower cost labor of under-developed economies, pulled investment in U.S. businesses and propped up new manufacturing (in China, Indonesia, India etc.) and intellectual businesses (computer programing, etc. in India). The boats that were raised by Yankee ingenuity and which had created the middle class, were briefly paused, and than, slowly at first, now rapidly is dropping from middle income to lower income or actual poverty when the plug was pulled and the draining increased as the water level (economy) dropped. The attempts to lower credit standards to offset the lower income, and maintain purchase power of the new lower income consumers has ended with this economic collapse. National health care is said to be needed to help U. S. businesses, but the economic realities say, nope, we cannot help business in this country without some sort of tariffs to offset the Asian pay scales. Argument is a red heron. Putting a cap and trade bill into force will not help global -pollution problems, as industries will move to nations that promise no such requirements. Argument=red heron. Nuclear power can be a great power source, if, a safe way to dispose of the highly radioactive fuel rods can be discovered, and only then. Nova Scotia was so named when the people in control of Scotland’s economy determined that more money could be created by replacing the people working the land with sheep. I fear that this nation has replaced our patriotic national government with wall street investors sheep. And remember the saying from the Revolutionary war in regard to merchants, “A merchant does not place his loyalty to the land upon which he stands, but to that from which he derives his income”. That was referring to Tories, today it applies to investors. It appears Communism didn’t fail, just changed its name to Globalization. Fair trade, not “free” trade. Only way to restore our economic vitality. Also, on the national front, bring our troops home from Europe, and Korea (the South being richer and many times as numerous). Also, we need to secure or borders from the criminalization that has taken over the southern border, and threat of terrorists on both borders. And it wouldn’t hurt to attempt to focus on South America in fair and friendly action that would benefit both us and them. Also, time to pull out of Iraq, and put our full efforts into destroying the Al-Queda terrorists.

  233. Blame Bush, Blame Obama. It makes no difference. The Democrats are responsible for this since they created the Community Reinvestment Act back in the Carter Administration. They “strengthened” the CRA during the Clinton era. Then when Bush, John Snow, and Alan Greenspan told them that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac stood to cause problems, Barney Frank and his bunch said everything was fine.

    The Republicans under Bush did loose control and spend like a bunch of drunken sailors. O’bama won the election by telling everyone that he would “Change” the way business in Washinton was done. He “changed” it alright. He’s spent more money at the fastest rate than ALL the previous President’s COMBINED. This is not the “change” that most of the people that voted for him had in mind. They thought they were voting for fiscal responsibility. Look what we all got.

    For those of you that think you’d be better off under a more “socialist” government, consider immigration. England is a nice place and you don’t even have to learn a new language. For those that want “real Socialism”, try France or Germany.

  234. “I think the French Socialist party is fairly representative of the group:
    Control the banks
    Control the insurance companies
    Control all major domestic companies even if it is only with one “golden share” that prevents management from taking definitive action without the approval of government.”

    I think given the rape of the American Worker over the past eight years (while it’s roots are in the Reagan Administration) that the above is a GREAT IDEA!

  235. It’s really too easy for conservatives to sit back and throw stones at the President, though if I had rooted for Bush for 8 years (or most of 8 years) I would be bitter at the world for raising me to be an idiot as well, or I would quietly change to being “Independent” and condemn all the things I had voted for and say “oh, I’m not like them, I hate these new policies but I ALSO hated the old ones…”

    Am I worried that Obama is spending too much? Yes. Am I worried about inflation? Yes. Do I think that they are constantly calculating the risks of these investments? Yes. But the fact is that he’s not doing the same spending that Bush did. Bush wanted to blow his load on security projects – projects that apparently did nothing because we’ve been told our ports and infrastructure are still pretty unsecure, I suppose we spent all the money to find this out? He also had MASSIVE no-bid military projects that were shown to be largely wasteful, something that both Obama and McCain are trying to remove post-election. Obama, on the other hand, has engineered the stimulus package to hit HIS priorities – EDUCATION, ENERGY, HEALTHCARE, INFRASTRUCTURE. Now if you look at the projects that he has invested in from the stimulus and you say “well dur, we could never pay that back” then you are clearly a pessimist who thinks that by investing in the current and next generation’s education, in new infrastructure and clean energy – technologies that will carry us into the 21st century as world leaders and will become the new American backbone in an ever-changing world – we are somehow dooming ourselves. This is the ONLY chance we have to pull ourselves out from the apathy that has gripped the generations that are living off of the fruits that previous generations have worked so hard to bear.

    So while constructive criticism is good, partisan stone-throwing is not. Unfortunately the conservative right has gone from a party of some morons and a good number of intellectuals to very few intellectuals and an overwhelming amount of morons…

  236. Same as we have a public educational system, this country needs a public health system funded no just by taxing some but by a universal progressive tax similar (or added to) our oersonal income taxes and corporate taxes.
    Public systems, in education or health, do not inhibit the existence of private schools or private health insurance. They simply provide an alternative. As our broken health market works now, the insured and their employer pay an exhorbitant amount of money for the care of the uninsured in the emergency room.
    Obviously, the insurance companies would like to maintain their monopoly on health care. They do not care about cost containment; they can always raise their premiums and maintain their profit margin.
    We could insure 34000 American with the salary of the CEO of United Health Group who makes 122.7 million/year.

  237. Just as a note, the United States is the only developed country without a law mandating some yearly vacation for workers.

    Scandinavian countries, Netherlands, France, and Germany have the most vacation mandated in their labor laws.

  238. For those that say that European workers are unhappy: I have lived in France and have French friends and the only one they are angry against is president Sarkozy (Sarko)because he wants to make France “more America-like”

  239. Think about this…The GDP of our nation (that is, the entire economic output of every industry and every business housed here) is 14.2 trillion dollars this year. The federal budget is nearly 4 trillion dollars. How in the world can our government possibly spend more than one fourth of the entire economic output of the country? They are spending like crazy, wasting billions of dollars on unconstitutional expenditures, and expanding the size and scope of the government more and more. The sad thing is, those numbers do not even include the unfunded obligations to social security and medicare that add trillions more to the problem. We are nearly at the point where we could give every dollar earned in the entire nation (i.e. 100% tax rate) to the government, and it still would not cover what we owe! WAKE UP PEOPLE. START ELECTING FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE LAWMAKERS! THE GOVERNMENT SIMPLY CANNOT PROVIDE FOR ALL OUR NEEDS! Now, the president wants to add another huge burden to the American people in the form of government run healthcare. Why doesn’t the government provide us all with yachts and cars and housing too? Answer: because it cannot afford it! Well, we cannot afford any more expansion of government, so the line should be drawn here and now! STOP SPENDING MONEY YOU DON’T HAVE WASHINGTON!

  240. Hey, all of you people who want to continually blame Bush – are you forgeting that for the last 2 yers hew asin office there was a democrat majority – meaning they wrote all of the bils, headed all of the committees, and could passs or reject anything they desired. Yuo need to look at a civics book and thn maybe you wuold realize that the president oes not “spend” money – he can ask, but congress can reject. So where is all of 2007 and 2008′s blame go. And I suppose in 2012 you will still be blaming the Bush adminsitration for ever problem and ill facing the country. When does your guy start taking the personal responsibility he keeps telling the rest of us about.

  241. Mike, in case you didn’t know it the constitution does provide that the government raise and provide for a military.. Guess this was part of your eduction n a day when you weren’t there. but no where do I read that it has a right to take what is mine, what I have worked for and one without so I can take care of myself, only to be told that it is not right bcause some don’t have what I have. Forget that they probably didn’t work nearly as hard (I am still working at 69), or that the instant gratification of a new car, new home, new plasma tv, etc was more important. So don’t tell me that the military is socialistic because tax money supports it – that is about all of the constituion that we have left.

  242. Where was all this fiscal conservatism when the previous administration spent the first 9 trillion dollars? And now, facing what amounts to a collapse of the world economy now is the time for all good countrymen to come to their senses? Hogwash. We have no recourse but to resort to Keynes, until a model for a global economy offers a better solution. Intervention and regulation that orders the economy is good. Laissez-faire is dead.

  243. Thanks for the article. The numerous responses from the socialist crowd make me laugh. 95% of them have never run a paper route, let alone a business. Instead of getting something for nothing, when Obama and his ilk have their way we will get nothing for something.

  244. “The problem with socialism is, eventually you run out of other people’s money.” — Queen Elizabeth.

    The Libs have all the same talking points. Still blame Bush. It’s like they are all clones to say the same nonsense. Nothing fact based, they just can’t handle the fact Obama is lacking the knowledge of fundamental economics. Now he’s trying to pretend he has an answer for Health Care. He is so clueless. I can sum up this administration with three words. “THEY ENABLE LAZINESS”.

  245. First of all for those of you from the left who seem so eager to support our president and condemn the previous administration I’ll repeat the facts from the original post that can’t be disputed:
    2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
    GDP $14,240 $14,729 $15,500 $16,470 $17,498 $18,836 $19,205 $20,952 $20,952 $21,884 $22,858
    Outlays $3,938 $3,552 $3,625 $3,662 $3,856 $4,069 $4,258 $4,493 $4,678 $4,868 $5,158
    $1,752 $1,171 $912 $581 $533 $570 $583 $637 $636 $634 $712

    Don’t forget that these numbers are from the administration who said we wouldn’t exceed 8% unemployment so I have no confidence in their rosy forecast ever coming true. Does anyone actually believe we will increase our GDP by over 60% in the next 10 years?

    Also you do-gooders need to get over yourselves and understand that being poor is supposed to suck and all the social programs that soften the harshness of being poor just encourages more of our citizens to live of those of us who choose to do something productive with our lives. The health INSURANCE issue is just that, we have the best health care in the world, you can cite all the actuary table info you want but take a look at the survival rates of the most common forms of cancer around the world no country comes close to the US for survivability rates. The way we fix this is to take health care out of the hands of our government and employers, put it back in to the hands of the individuals, pay as you go for routine office visits and prescriptions and use health INSURANCE like we do car insurance. If car insurance covered oil changes, car washes, tires and batteries we’d be in the same debacle there as we are with health care today

  246. Voicing or texting an opinion isn’t necessarily the same as speaking one’s mind since one must assume there’s a working mind willing to credit what somebody else thinks is listening to them. Experience is the best of all teachers and soon enough we will all learn whether Americans are better socialist managers than the French or Soviet socialists were. Somehow I doubt it.


  247. the only way that we are going to get this nation back on track is to stop rewarding bad behavior. If you are too lazy to work, you don’t eat. Not, get a welfare check,food stamps,free housing,medicaid,etc. If you practice bad business management your business goes bankrupt and you close the door.Not, get a Gov. bailout. Both at the expense of those who have not practiced the same bad behavior, but have worked hard, played by the rules, and provided for them selves. that is why socialism fails every time it is tried, because eventually you run out of people to pick up the tab. The pols. say “we will get the money from the greedy rich.” but you can only take so much from the “Rich” before they are no longer rich. Then where will the money come from? The rich are rich because they practiced the good behavior mentioned earlier. Try it sometime and you may get rich yourself.

  248. If you think socialism works – think again. If you believe in socialism then MOVE to a country that supports it. Otherwise we all suffer.

  249. Why shoud we move? We won. You move. I really get a kick out of the lunatic birthers, especially the crazy old lady who screamed that she wanted her country back. It is our country, not yours, and if you want it back, present ideas to all of us that make sense. Conservatism has embraced archaic nonsense in order to suck up to christian lunatics. You want your country back? I want to be rid of you, and your ideas that don’t work. You move. We won.

  250. [quote]Quoted from the very first coment
    “My only rebuttle will be a quote from my good friend Mr. Wilde:

    “Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination.”

    Hats off to you as well Mr. Obama!”[/quote]

    My Response
    It is not the place of politicians to have imagination. The earlier form of the American Republic featured politicians who were the grey colorless folk who paved our roads, ran the legal system and left all of that “vision thing” to the private sector/civil society. Today America is decaying and corrupt and back then it was a rising power with a very vibrant (adjusted for less technological advancement of the times). One wonders how great we could become as a nation if we were to go back to a weak limited government and a strong civil society. First however we must choose politicians who lack imagination and are willing to devolve functions the Constitution never granted to the government back to the people.

  251. This article leaves much to be desired. I expected some attack on the actual theories of libertarian socialists/anarcho-syndicalists or the usual, “I misinterpret Marx, so therefore my misinterpretation is great cannon fodder for criticism!” Instead, I end up reading a bunch of blather about social spending within State Capitalism, and how good, fiscally responsible people make it to the top 1 percent of income earners. What a joke!
    Ps. I find it sadly ironic that this article talks about confronting REALITY within it’s title, and the website itself has the heading of “New age of reason in a MESSIANIC world”….ummm who exactly needs to confront reality here?
    P.s.s I wish you conservatives would stop talking about Keynesian economics under the title of socialism…. they are not the same, and your continual misrepresentation of Obama’s Keynesian economic policies, not only makes you look like uneducated idiots, but also seems to try to bring up the ole buggerbear of Stalinism as a scare tactic. Stop being fraudulent!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    This link is to interview with Robert Shiller of Yale who, as one of the more broadly and deeply thinking individuals on the subject, manages to penetrate the rhetoric and show how capitalism ought to function….can function and be a form of societal caring that does not have to be “socialism” and doesn’t need to be condemned as “capitalism” and probably requires a new term like “carism”!!

  253. I echo the statements which put into firm perspective that the Bushistas ran up a trillion dollars in a completely unnecessary war in Iraq, plus, gave the keys of the kingdom to all kinds of rampant, rapacious, greedy capitalists, who took the country for a ride that has set the stage for this hellbroth.
    Some of that TARP money is already coming back. The rest is earning interest. If the Stock Market rallies and continues to move up, and forward, then it is possible more of the TARP loans, with interest, will be repaid early. Each $ so repaid is a $ not pushed into the deficit.
    If I were Obama, I’d challenge the country with this call:
    “Americans often say that this is a country of men and women who are religious, and attend some form of worship every week. I would ask all who have some kind of Higher Power, or spiritual power they adhere to, to respond to Jesus’ challenge that “what you do for the least among you, you do for me.”
    It is likely that all the major faiths found in the United States: Buddhism; Christianity; Hinduism; Islam; Judaism; Sikh; B’hai and Jains … all have similar challenges from their respective spiritual founders and leaders. I believe that even if we do have to raise taxes, to ensure that medical care is available for all Americans, and, that we do not fall into massive debt, following those spiritual guidelines, we will achieve this goal of health care for all.
    “Those who are nowwithout health care … almost 1:6 Americans, are “the least among us.” I want us to all look deeply, within, and ask: are we/have we become so callous, so selfish and self-centered, that we cannot aspire to insuring all with health care, and, if necessary, paying more in taxes to keep the program solvent? Can we not work to ensure that this program is not deficit driven?
    “I think we can, and we will. Americans are, in the final analysis, aware that nothing is for free, and that freedom from fear and anxiety over whether we have health care for ourselves, our neighbors, and our neighbors children … may come with higher taxes. And, in the final analysis, we can and will do this.
    “The time to go out and spend on ourselves has reached it’s limits. Now, we must spend more to ensure our nation stays a world power into the 21st Century. Our nation is older, and has many needs that must be met, to revitalize and reinvigorate our infrastructure and begin a ‘green technological evolution.’”
    “I believe the American people will respond to these challenges, and also, keep our debt low. Our believe in the goodness and common sense of our people. I believe they will show all the nay-sayers wrong.”

  254. The capitalist system, its ruling class, and their apologists have once again driven humanity into a terrible global crisis. World war, massive poverty, unprecented species threatening global ecological crises, the natural world owned privately and plundered pasts its limits for profits, imperial wars using futuristic killing technology against poor and desperate people, people stuffed into for-profit prisons in numbers shameful to even contemplate, people working their asses off way too many hours a day for scraps while a tiny elite sits on our great collective wealth. This is the picture of late world capitalism. Its only part of the picture and its generous. And the tragicomedy of it is that the apologists for this monstrous dying system scold the vast majority of the world for their ‘personal irresponsibility’ and complain from morning until night about the tyranny of taxes. It is apologists for the capitalist system who need to ‘confront reality’. For most of human history, we got by without class domination and the states that accompany them. One day, hopefully we will throw this one of our backs and create some real democracy and liberty.

  255. guy d, it wasn’t the Republicans who created the economic mess, you nimrod. It was 35 years of Jimmy Carter’s tinkering with the housing market and then Bill Clinton exacerbating Carter’s Community Development Act laws by making quotas on banks to give loans out to minorities when they knew they would never be able to pay them back.

    After 35 years of forcing banks to give out bad loans, the housing market bubble finally broke and the market crashed.

    Republicans like Bush and McCain tried to save the market by putting oversight on entities like Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, the financial retirement wonderland of Democratic henchmen, but Democrats like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd always stood in the way. Every time a Republican tried to take a look at the housing scam that Democrats perpetrated they were threatened with campaign ads against them saying that Republicans didn’t want black folks to be able to purchase homes.

    The Democratic Party created a legacy for themselves by creating Section 109 of Title 1, otherwise known as the Community Development Act. It forced banks to give out loans to minority applicants based on race. The Democrats told banks to forget their business models and give out loans to blacks who they knew couldn’t afford to pay them back.

    Sub prime loans were a way for banks to be able to comply without going broke immediately, but eventually the Democratic created mess caught up with reality and the market crashed.

    The housing market crash caused AIG, the largest insurer on home mortgages to go belly up when all the claims came in, and then the credit was harmed as well. When credit went businesses that based their business models on using credit went bankrupt.

    And then we had the very same Democrats blame everyone but their own stupid legacy creating selves. Every time Obama stood up and blamed Bush and the supposed greedy corporate executives I wants to scream. The Democratic Party and they alone caused this financial mess.

    George W Bush had the strongest economy our country has ever seen. There were Down Jones records left and right. Growth was continual for the first six years of this presidency, even though he inherited an recession from Clinton/Gore.

    Then the Democrats took over Congress and with their socialist agenda, along with housing crashing, we now have an economic mess.

    The saddest thing of all is that nimrods like you and others who are posting here blaming Republicans for this mess all sound like the south end of a northbound horse. They have no idea what they are talking about, and truth be told, I don’t think they care to hear or know the truth of it.

  256. Mr. Bologna, I think I love you a bit for this. Far too many liberals – especially those born after 1975, who weren’t paying a great deal of attention during the Carter and Clinton eras – have a predilection for cheering on the current administration without any consideration for the inevitable consequences.

  257. No, most Marxists could’ve told people this crash would happen. Rather they would’ve told you that an economic crash was an inevitability because that is how capitalism works. People want what is good about capitalism but they think the bad things like speculation, corruption, greed, permanent warfare won’t come with it. The mainstream of this country has been steeped in magical thinking for a long time. I remember being told as far back as the eighties that an economic crash would never again occur–ever. The more people attempted to convince me of the stability and permanence of this economic system the less I believed them.

    Didn’t the father of the Kennedy political dynasty know when to pull his money out of the market was when his shoe shine boy was offering him hot stock tips?

    How could people not have seen that gross military spending distributed in the budget between the armed forces, nasa, national atomic energy agency, combined with skyrocketing health care costs and a permanent war would be bad for the economy? Didn’t people realize how irresponsible the so-called tax-payer rebellions of the seventies in California would be in the long run? Increasing government expenditures while not raising taxes. This was US government policy, Democratic and Republican for the last two or three decades. Even George H. W. Bush called Reagan’s economics “voodoo economics”.

    Everyone from the Left Business Observer, to Joseph Stiglitz the nobel prize winning economist had been noting this sort of blatant pig-headed irresponsibility. After all, if the capitalists are too stupid to keep themselves from destroying their own economic system, they certainly wont listen to any “lunatic” voices in the wilderness.

    Richard Nixon knew what was going to happen to the world economy when he decided to pull the dollar off the gold standard, which was the only way the US government could offload its debts onto foreign countries who were forced to pay for the privilege of supporting our paper currency in order not to wipe out their exports.

    Structured Investment Vehicles got their start as far back as the seventies. Hedge funds and similar financial instruments were created in the post WWII period to spread financial risk as widely as possible. This was seen as a good thing at the time. It has the unfortunate drawback…of spreading risk.

    In the entire post-WWII boom this crash was an inevitability. The US with its exceptionalism and its forty years of economic prosperity taught mainstream thinkers that their present conditions of society would be permanent.

    Nothing in capitalism is permanent, not prosperity, not even the capitalist system itself. Human political economy is always changing and sooner or later this current system will go down in the dust of time like feudalism or Roman slavery.

  258. “Are we not Americans? I thought we were known for taking things that others had created and making them better?”

    WELL the one thing that makes us AMERICANS is that we CREATED A DOCUMENT THAT IS THE IMMUTABLE LEGAL BASIS OF OUR RIGHTS FREEDOMS LIBERTIES AND OUR LIVES – THis is the Constitution with the Bill of Rights are founding documents that even Rousseau felt to be the most brilliant piece of work ever! We didnt copy the Constitution and the only time the WORLD united as one was to step on the head of Socialism – Marxism in all of its forms! It will be quashed again. You young generation kids really think out of the box dont you? Trouble is money has a mind all its own. Prosperity as anything is not based on permanency – it is based on sound decision making and enterprise. One does not reject one historically failed system ie Socialism over Democracy simply because your parents nor yourselves are willing to stand up for your nation
    Do not call yourselves American if this is your thinking. It was not easy to build this nation into what it is – the Greatest! But it will be easier to return to our recognized and time honored system with greed and you under-educated though over propagandized youths out of the way. Support Obama is stupid – your own socialist type tell you themselves – a bad experiment will not all of a suddenly go right – You kids are truly helpless!

  259. Great Post!!!
    To all those who say “if it werent for this new deficit spending, blah blah blah blah..we’d be even worse off” well look to the depression that occurred in the early 20′s, which started off even worse than the Great Depression, and the government sat back, refusing to intercede, and the economy recovered in 18 months….weird how that worked out.

    And yes, Bush and the congress spent money like it was nobodies business, I’ll grant that any day of the week. But for the housing crisis, look to the dems who worked to make sure insolvent practices involving financial institutions by de-regulating led to the bubble and subsequent collapse. you dems hear that…it is your guys who de-regulated the system, despite 3 known occasions of Bush calling for Congress to reform to stop the bad practices. And you have Barney Frank, who benefitted from it all, then chastised republicans for not regulating enough….even though that was part of his job, and in the midst of it all, as things blew over, he was calling for more of the same practices to occur that caused the problem….yeah, thats real genius.

  260. who in the USA understands what “socialism” really is. first we are more or less all social, we talk to each other. we already have “social security, medicare and so on”. if we would have gotten health care 15 years ago we could have made it already much better. who got us in this economic struggle and high unemployment? why do we have so many illegal aliens here and who let them come here? is no one responsible? how do we get out of this mess?

  261. That’s interesting. A slice of pizza? I was thinking the leftover would be enough for a piece of gum. I’ll have to ration it out over a week to last me.

  262. Oh, and I sure am glad that we have the money in the budget to pay for his family’s wardrobes. I would hate for them to have to wear Walmart specials like the rest of us.

  263. HC
    People who blame Bush for the financial collapse never mention the fact that it was a full strength Congress of democrats who ran things in the house and the senate. Incidentally Bush is not the President, Obama is and he said he could handle it better than Bush, so far he has taken America back 75 years. Democrats are really great for coming up with programs to help the poor (Buying votes), they however are out of their league when it comes to doing things right. Obama is a dismal failure and thousands of people over the years have been warned of a future economic melt down, but nobody listened. For a year the voting public were told the truth about Obama, which is he is an empty suit, always will be. He is incompetent, accept it, he has no defence.

  264. You know my only question is why would he perfer a democratic revolution i mean the great and mighty Bush showed us ho0w that works honestly how about an Anarchist revolution and bring this country back to what it used to be about Freedom and not money

    “Demmocracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner, that when the people learn that they can vote money for themselves it will herald the end of the republic. Liberty is a wel armed lamb contesting to the vote” Ben Franklin.

    Even Franklin saw it comin back then all these politicians now a days want any moe is ome money and power that is all this country was born and built on the backbone of the idea of anarchy and there it should return. I say that we the people need to become that wel armed lamb and take our country back and stop this socialist movement because after that there is nothing else but communism and dictatorship and I DO NOT want that for my children and there chldren.

    It’s that time for another revoution.
    An American revolution
    An Anarchy revolution……


  265. Michelle,

    Regarding the “socialism” of the Apostles, and the example put forth today of congregations providing “care for their priest/ministers…so they can be free to preach the Gospel and tend the flock,” it is interesting to note Paul’s remarks on the subject (hint: he made tents).

    Modern socialists are more concerned with administering than ministering.

  266. [...] First Tweet May 2, 2009 hankrearden73 Javier E. David is currently reading #TCOT #SGP #SOBCON view retweet [...]

  267. When will people start asking our “elected representatives” about the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) of the states and federal government. This report evidences all the assets and liabilities of all governments–not just the B.S. budgets showing us all DEBT. The CAFRs show where all the federal money goes–offshore. It is the monies gained through profit on all the federal pensions, all federal infrastructure, all federal buidlings, autos, computers, etc. These numbers account for tens of TRILLIONS. That is what the federal government won’t show the people because the people would demand it all back in major tax cuts of 75% or more.

    It’s what the feds have been stealing from us for years to build what is now known, under the US Code, as the FEDERAL CORPORATION. The federal (and to lesser extent, the states) government is in the business of being big business. The only problem is that if Obamanomics socialism takes hold, there ain’t gonna be anybody to pay for it. You can tax the hell out of the people, but if there is no more money left, and no incentive left, all the best laid plans of Adolf Obama and his goose-stepping Nazis like Pelosi, Reid, Schumer (he should know better since what happened to his own people 70 years ago in Germany), etc.

  268. Cool site, love the info.

  269. A Federal Corporation, the perfect conservative excuse for the root of all evil. More lunatic fringe arguments against more government, developed after years of constant negative attacks by ultra-conservative idiots who think that industry runs better than government, nothwithstanding the recent meltdowns in the private sector.
    The governernment that you hate so vociferously is composed of folks who live on your street, who take your garbage away, and rush your kid from the accident to the hospital. They guard your neighborhood, and make sure your water is clean, and the roads are open. They work in places like the CDC so that you don’t die from germs, they use your taxes to fight cancer and guard borders. The Ron Paul lunatics who show up on the capital steps screaming for less government are the sad result of years of insults and lies about people who help you every day. Crawl back under your rocks. We won, and have political capital, and we intend to spend it. You lost, so shut up already.

  270. @Kyle

    “That leaves us with two alternatives, that cannot be dismissed. You either love freedom or you want control. All of the socialists when you hear it put so succinctly, your retort is what about the poor and the cripples. And this once again supports the notion of your desire for control by the use of guilt”.

    I say, the former is a huge part of the latter unfortunately whether any like that or not. but a HUGE part of the problem is ORGANIZATION.

    maybe sartzy is a good governor? hopw do you know? you cant read minds can you?

    you dont know the statistics of who will pull together this year more or less.

    but we think we have a good idea at baseing fact on non fiction by reading the fiction of politicians.

    that many will not pull together without resources or protection.

    and as for poor cripples? thats kind of low.

    its the system of health insurance companies who likely waste money, via theyre sytem of “ideals”

    you can have this surgery for bedsores, but you cant have this cushion for your wheelchair which would prevent them…

    stupid, as for developing all together no fail systems of curin all cripples were not far off at all. all we need is motivated scientist funded to recreate theire ideas for a better replacement of faulty dna. or that next big leap in a fleshy bionic limb.

    and insurance companies wise enough to cash out on what ppl need and will buy rather than surgeries that couldve been prevented?

    so why shouldnt we believe in science nick? o thats right we cant read the minds of scientists….

    but if we could.. and have a new all mighty god that forgave us for sins and taught us to live amongst the wisest.

    who arent incarcerated by laws by laws we must have for our poor decisions, or our decisions deemed poor, or even our damn lazy eye, or terrets syndrome, or masochismic shcizophrenic borderline personality, or boredom that causes our youths idle hands, or three eyed fish from some company, then wed be coolin.

    wed be coolin..

    i wonder if we did legalize pot if itd make it harder for kids to get in california.. thats what they say but who can predict the future o right we didnt elect them yet..

    so how is it the cripples fault kyle? for shame for shame..

    and i dont think that any word like fancy socialism or capitalism. although systems are important less definition is required for blame and more of how something is. if a system makes something how it is and it sux then i guess thats partially why..

    but maybe ONLY partially

    if things didnt suck ppl wouldnt complain and then wed be bored, but maybe a imaginary new idea of a new system is just a new systematic cure for boredom who knows.


  271. Oh my God, you mad freak! That’s brilliant post.

  272. I saw your web site when I was searching for something else, but this post was on the first page of Bing your web site must be pretty popular! Continue the awesome job!

  273. Where did this idea come from that socialism is about supporting people that dont work, I thought that was what capitalism was. Us people who work are not capitalists, we are workers. Capitalists sit back and take the wealth we create, control vast amounts of property and resources (that they had no involvement in creating) influence our governments with their money and call us lazy good for nothings for wanting our fair share of the wealth we created.I recognize the virtues of the free market, I dont want the government to control all of industry, but I also think that given the increase in population, industrialization, and finite resources we can no longer afford an undemocratic form of resource use and industry. We are actually stifling innovation and our “growth” is cancerous. I happen to be an anarchist, and no this doesnt mean I’m anti-organization or pro-chaos or whatever-it means (in an economic sense) I believe businesses should be owned and managed by the workers, that direct lines of communication and participation between resource, business and community should be employed in an organic free market fashion, and that we should begin to take responsibility for our own community building. Quality of life,diversity, innovation-it is economically achievable by mixing mutualism and syndicalism, utilizing the strong points of free market without its flaws, like turning humans into products whose value is determined by “market forces” if you have a whole lot of anything its value goes down,also, wealth hoarding isnt doing anyone any good, including the fool who has more cash than they can spend in 7 lifetimes, retarded want based consumerism, capitalism created it and now bitches about living beyond thy means. when people get together (free association) and decide to put their minds and muscle into something they typically want it to have meaning, mass producing disposable products isnt normal social ecology, it only becomes so when profit is the only motive-and it is not an efficient use of resources. Capitalist efficiency is how to make an efficient dollar, production costs and miserly ways have no say in the ridiculous things produced “efficiently”. We need to begin to grow again as a community, a global community, it will not be solved by the state, nor will it be solved by the bloated “competitive” blind scramble of a private sector. Only through a direct, democratized community sector will we think and act our way through the problems that lay ahead. We should be working simultaneously to decentralize the state, slowly and intelligently into non-existence as well as returning industry, education and everything else WE create and WE use to US, not a few at the top, not a welfare bribe system, but real community with real opportunity that takes full advantage of its human resources, improving the quality of life rather than this scramble to ever heighten our standard of living, leaving the earth a trash heap as we go, throwing people away like waste and deifying the dollar, relying on 2 party systems. TWO! come on. Its time for our species to take its own evolution in its hands

  274. Before you consider the demented ravings of cowards who argue economics rather than racial survival, please read the following study about the white males that you are dealing with. It may shock you, even rock you, but its reality and must be factored into every equation.

    Discovery of New White Male Syndrome

    by Briar Cavendish
    This discussion of the Wigger Syndrome may interest all Americans because ….
    …. I tie together observed white male behavior such as disorganization, aversion to planning and unreliability, into a nest of adult white male effeminate behavioral patterns that I call the Wigger Syndrome. I believe that this syndrome encapsulates the corrosive effect of years of conditioning on the white male psyche. However, the Wigger Syndrome has affected only a percentage of white males, maybe 60%. With sensitive tolerance, more research and relentlessly tough deprogramming, we may be able to help free some of them from this media imposed psychosis.
    I have a Masters Degree in Psychology and I have completed most of my doctorate. I was trained to spot anomalies in groups including group hysteria. Mass hysteria (also called collective hysteria, mass psychogenic illness, or collective obsessional behavior) is the socio-psychological phenomenon of the manifestation of the same or similar hysterical symptoms or irrational/conditioned belief system by more than one person.
    I am going to tell you something now that you have heard nowhere else. It is a description of a strange type of mass hysteria that has gripped most white American male civilians. It is rooted in years of media conditioning or brainwashing, that is repeated relentlessly, 24-7 in every television commercial, movie, church, billboard and more. It is a form of Orwellian conditioning that has affected most American white men. It has made them more effeminate, fat, less stable, very suggestible and worshippers of black males.
    Most political analysts who are objective, and that is a tiny group, agree that resistnet, for example, is an AfroSocialist group. The white male members are imbued with a strange psychological mind set and are very emotional about it. Most of the men evidencing this new mass hysterical phenomena are not really masculine in the former definition of the term and many women notice the difference. For example women describe such males as “not the type of men who would be protective.”
    As a group, white male hysterics illogically feel that any criticism of black groups which are racist, criminal, parasitical or socialist, is itself racist and they will not allow it. They feel it very strongly and argue with a trembling emotional heretifor consider a female trait.
    White male black-hysterics are very uncomfortable and feel a sense of fear if they find themselves in all white groups. If they are in an entirely white group they begin asking themselves, “why are there no blacks here?” Sometimes, when their internal pressure builds up to the over heated pressure cooker state, they explode out loud with the question: “Why are there no blacks here, is this a racist group?” You see, on television, in movies and in advertising, there is no group without blacks in it. Although blacks are only 10% of the population, you see them in every group advertisement by public media. Most Hollywood movies now have black stars, so the conditioned white males believe that blacks are here in far more higher ratios. In interviews they have said that blacks are 30 to 60% of the American population because that is how blacks are depicted in nearly every advertisement and all media. Currently the media features Obama in positive stories daily and give him more favorable publicity than any other president in the past 50 years. It’s like the Orwellian book 1984, which describes the fact that pictures of “the leader” are everywhere and broadcast continually by the media.
    At the same time blacks are always presented as strong masculine leaders and smarter than white people, in fact blacks are promoted so zealously in the media that the media always depicts black males as the number one mating choice of attractive, even beautiful, white females. Is it any wonder that there are so many demasculated white males who want to be led by a black? They realize that they are missing a certain potency and think that by “hanging out” with blacks some of the black potency might rub off on them.
    In fact without black presence and black cultural artifacts such as jive talking, they feel positively uncomfortable. That is why they elected a black foreigner as president and why the GOP has a black leader. It does not matter what the political, criminal, racist or other beliefs of the black male are, the just have to have them. Notice how this genre of black hysterical white males greet black males with great affection and so do their wives. The look is one of adoration. Their most important agenda is black cultural dominance and although you may scoff now, sooner or later you will notice it, unless you are black-hysteric too.
    White-male black-hysterics are conditioned to believe that they are “safe” and “part of the mainstream” as long as they promote black influence. They want to please blacks with ever fiber of their soul. Anyone who disagrees is a white supremacist or baby killer or whatever other cross invective enters their fevered minds. They do not care if their chosen black leader is a tyrant or communist, in fact most of the men have some how lost their masculinity and “desire” black dominance regardless of other character factors. This psychology drive is the result of years of media conditioning. When in a self-reinforcing group white male hysterics gang up on a single white man with a vicious result, it is because they see racism everywhere. For example, on a forum I recently referred to Afroracism which is an admitted feature of most blacks, even by social scientists. I was attacked by a white male on the forum who accused me of being a racist and white supremacist who would cause the group to be destroyed by my spreading of hatred. He said, “I am a life long conservative and I have learned to recognize you racists. He denied black crime statistics, the fact that over 500,000 black males are members of armed gangs that control slices of 71 American cities, and other such facts. He tossed them all aside with more and more emotional charges of racism. He said there are more white criminals, racist, serial killers and everything that is bad, percentage wise, than there are blacks.” He was joined by several other very emotional republicans who voiced the opinion that they were “proud to be led by black leaders and in fact preferred them. There is no difference between the races.”
    When I brought up Obama, they said:”Who even notices he is black? He is just as likely to be white. People like you hate him because he is black, we are working against him because of his policies. Race has nothing to do with it.” That is their mantra. They deny the very force that has them in its trall. They elected a black criminal president to prove that they were not racist and they are rabid about it.
    The most tragic factor of this psychotic phenomena is the importance of denial. Black-hysterical white males deny not only any black culpability in anything criminal or racist, but they also deny their black-worshiping hysteria. Yet the phenomena is so well known on the street, that large numbers of impressionable and mentally challenged white teenagers dress and talk like blacks to the extent that they are called “wiggers.” These wiggers totally embrace the prevalent black culture with its rap music that advocates murder of white males and rape of white females.

  275. Even Soviet Russia, at its worst as a police state regime, never: -programmed its majority for genocide -pampered and supported lazy , racist parasitical minorities -allowed affirmative action, political correctness, foreign ideologies to publicly enlist Soviets in subversion schemes, a media that blatantly hated the majority, the elevation of the crudest and most incompetent “art” imaginable, national support of anti-culture, segregated all-african sports teams, money gouging by rich marxist-capitalists, forced sensitivity groups, discrimination against its best and brightest,dumbing down of schools to appease the moronic, a military that cannot win wars against even irregulars -subversion by primitive, medieval muslims. Soviet communism actually offered a form of tyranny that was more humane than the AfroAmerican brand of communism. Do not lie about what I have said. I have lived in Soviet Russia, you bastards.

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